TUESDAY 24 FEBRUARY 1998

MR MIKE BRANAGHAN, CLLR KEITH WHITMORE and CLLR NICKY GAVRON

  160.  How do local authorities make a profit out of their allotments?

  (Cllr Gavron)  Make a profit?
Chairman:  There is a charge, is there not? How far does the charge for the allotment cover the local authority's administration, if not the rent, of the actual land?

  161.  You have listed protection. It is quite clear you get a good response if people know they exist and there are plots vacant, so that means advertising it.

They should be secure when they get there so that people do not whip something after they have done a lot of work. There is the provision of things like toilets and provision for the children so that people are not shouted at when they bring their kids to work on the allotment. All those things cost money. What you have said to us this morning is that all the pressures on local authorities are going in the opposite way. Firstly, that there is not a second budget. Secondly, that the land will be regarded almost automatically by an authority that is under pressure as a suitable site for development for some other reason, particularly if it can either provide houses or bring in money to the local authority that is already cash strapped and by definition all the evidence you have given us on rents makes it clear that there is an enormous imbalance and the authority will have to consciously decide to subsidise those sites.

You have not addressed that at all this morning and yet it is fundamental. You have told us of the stresses and strains within the different authorities because there are too many competing interests which is why you do not want the Secretary of State removed. Is anyone in the LGA addressing the simple fact that if you want this as a conscious leisure pursuit it is going to cost you money? It seems to me to be fundamental to everything you have said this morning because the agenda is behind everything you have said this morning. The ones that are successful and where you get new young people in are where people know, so that means good advertising, facilities, ways of protecting allotments. Nobody ever thought of somebody spending a whole season growing things and getting it whipped overnight meaning that somebody could go and sell their produce.

  (Cllr Gavron)  I am not saying that there cannot be some innovative ways if we put our minds to it, but allotments are for some of the poorest members of society. My authority is often criticised for charging above (at £48 p.a.) the national average for an allotment which is £22 per annum.
Mrs Dunwoody:  We are not arguing with you on that. You are pushing at an open door. If we accept that there is a basic imbalance between what people can pay for an allotment and what an authority is going to have to spend, who is going to take a conscious decision to target allotments as being one of the things you have to develop?
Chairman:  Can I add to that the possibility about looking at other ways of finance. In the Stockport Health Authority doctors are allowed to prescribe for people to have physical exercise.
Mrs Dunwoody:  I hope people can read the prescription!
Chairman:  What about allowing doctors to prescribe for certain people an allotment which would be far better than a lot of drugs?
Mrs Dunwoody:  Particularly the patient they cannot get rid of any other way!
Mr Olner:  Chairman, my question follows on from the questions you have been asking and Mrs Dunwoody has been asking because the Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions is well known for its generosity. You will note that in their submission they say that the district and borough councils spent nearly £8.5 million on allotments in 1996/97 whilst the total income from those sites amounted to just under £2.5 million. So there is a tremendous imbalance somewhere. What are you going to do to address that?

  162.  I think perhaps we had better leave that as another blank! If you feel afterwards, when you have thought about the evidence session, you want to send us another note, we would be very pleased to have that.

  (Cllr Gavron)  I think you have given us much food for thought.

  163.  This is a new type of Select Committee where you come and answer the questions and then we send you away with more than you came with!

  (Cllr Gavron)  It is very good to have the dialogue.

We do not want to make it up on the hoof.
Chairman:  If you have got any more thoughts, please let us have them. Thank you very much for coming.