TUESDAY 24 FEBRUARY 1998

MR MIKE BRANAGHAN, CLLR KEITH WHITMORE and CLLR NICKY GAVRON

  140.  So what problems do you envisage if that were to happen?

  (Cllr Gavron)  If we look at the allotments survey what we see is that statutorily protected allotments are the ones that have become an increasingly important part of allotment provision. It is the temporary allotments that have been lost. As long as Planning Services work hand in hand with Leisure Services so that we get Leisure Services understanding the demand, and need for allotments, and we manage them properly, then I think the current statutory provision is sufficient as long as there is also this failsafe with the Secretary of State.
Chairman:  Is that not a little bit illogical? The Local Government Association and lots of others have been saying more power should be returned to local authorities and yet in something which is fairly straightforward like allotments you are actually saying, "Don't trust the local councils about allotments. Let us make sure that the Secretary of State has a veto at the end of the day."[4]

  141.  There is no practical protection that you can see because every application that has been made by the local authorities to the minister has been agreed by the minister.

  (Mr Branaghan)  I think it is important as far as perhaps the national allotment movement is concerned.

I think by removing ministerial consent it would have a drastic effect on the morale of the allotment movement. We have heard that there are allotment authorities that are pre-supposed towards the disposal of allotments and there are those that see the importance. Overall, I think having the ministerial consent is seen as a safeguard generally for everyone to prevent the national decline in allotments.

  (Cllr Whitmore)  I think we can take on the very point that you are making. I think one of the difficulties is that often the pressures that are put on allotment sites can be a conflict of interest amongst members. Planning pressures sometimes have their sway above other considerations in local authorities and that is one of the reasons why we are saying that that ministerial safeguard, which has worked very well, is something that we do think should continue in this instance.
Chairman:  Brian Donohoe's point is that it does not appear to work very well in that every application has been approved since there was a change of government.

  142.  If I were a local authority wanting to develop land, especially in the light of the requirement to increase urban land, I would not approach it head on.

Over a period of time I would not advertise vacancies, I would not provide my allotment holders with very good amenities and I might put a piece in the press occasionally questioning whether the site has got any future and after a period of time there would not be many people on my allotment site. I would then go to the Secretary of State and say, "There is nobody on this site. Can we please develop it?" How would one stop that happening? Do you think the LGA could self-police this?

  (Mr Branaghan)  I believe that one way forward is to have performance indicators perhaps similar to the Citizen's Charter-type performance indicators. Rather than setting a statutory provision which local authorities could meet easily and others could find it very very difficult, by setting statutory performance indicators it would mean that the local authority would have to publicly announce what its performance has been in allotment provision and as the electorate see that provision declining, if it does in a particular authority, it gives them course then to ask politicians, etcetera, what is actually happening to our allotment provision? Under the current statutory designation in the process, as you say, we are seeing allotments declining perhaps because they are not being promoted effectively, but if an authority had to declare its standard as it is now, a snapshot picture and then in two years time comes back and says, "We have lost another 1,000 plots", there is a point where people will start to say, "Hang on a minute, there is a serious problem here."

  143.  By then all the allotments have gone.

  (Mr Branaghan)  But hopefully with a statutory indicator you can stop that decline sooner rather than the gradual decay that perhaps is occurring at the moment.

  144.  Would you favour some indicators of the extent of pro-activity in making allotments work, the sort of extent to which local authorities supported allotments, because that would seem to me a rather important method of finding out whether the local authority is supporting allotments or hoping they will go away?

  (Cllr Gavron)  I think we ought to be looking at relating households without gardens to allotment provision and we ought to make sure that every local authority understands the types of need and the demand and there ought to be performance indicators on that.

  (Cllr Whitmore)  I think the other important ingredient is to have a strong local allotment society actually involved in the operation of the site. Where there is that sort of society operating it does help. Most of our budget pressures are dealt with in vandalism to plots and huts and fencing and the like. It is difficult, but I think a small budget made available to local societies to be involved in some of those policing activities on the site and, indeed, the pleasurable side of it, local shows and allotment shows really helps as it gets the community pride included as well. I think a very small amount of budget provision from a local authority to a society would very much help. Certainly from my experience the most successful sites are where there are successful societies in operation.

  145.  Do you favour an amendment of the distinction between statutory and temporary sites? One of the concerns we have had expressed to us is that some local authorities will actually continue to maintain that a site is temporary even though it has been used over many decades. Would it be possible perhaps to give a site statutory protection if it has been used for an allotment site for a certain period of time?

  (Mr Branaghan)  There are dangers with that.

Some authorities have been farsighted in the allocation of land that they have made. For instance, they may have already allocated and purchased land for cemetery purposes knowing that they might not use that land until perhaps the year 2000 and beyond. If we made it that all temporary sites that are used for allotment purposes automatically become statutory sites then I think in planning terms it would be a nonsense because we would then have the same problem for cemetery land as we have got at the moment for allotment land, i.e. how do we find allotment land in a city or town where land is at a premium?

  146.  I accept your point about the fact that local authorities do have to plan ahead in land use terms, but some of the evidence given to us in writing is that the local authorities are potentially abusing this and they are using land over a very long period of time whilst maintaining all along that it is temporary use.

  (Cllr Gavron)  The LGA's feeling is that we should get the statutory provision right and that temporary sites augment this. The problem with what you are suggesting is that it would discourage sites being used temporarily.

  147.  But 25 years, 30 years?

  (Cllr Gavron)  You are saying that if after 30 years it is still not being used for something else, are you not? [5]

  148.  What you told us in evidence is that you like the position by which the Secretary of State has to give final approval if an allotment site is to be closed. That only applies, as I understand it, if it is a statutory site and not a temporary site. Surely if it has been there for 25 years then it is logical that the same protection ought to apply to it. It is not impossible to use it for some other purposes but there is going to be that same safeguard there.

  (Mr Branaghan)  I suppose it gives a local authority the opportunity to make its case in that if it had bought the land for cemetery purposes or housing purposes and that need has now arisen it would allow for that opportunity.

  (Cllr Gavron)  I do have to cite the London case where we have a crisis around burial land and many allotments are on cemetery land and we are now talking long term. There is quite an issue here.
Dr Whitehead:  Do you think there is a need for greater planning policy guidance? You implied this in your written evidence. Do you think, for example, some sort of equivalent of green belt status for some urban allotments might be appropriate?
Mrs Dunwoody:  Green cemeteries!

  149.  How about green allotments?

  (Cllr Gavron)  Or just grow very good trees! Our feeling is that the planning requirements are adequate if a sufficient case is made in leisure strategies. It is just like any other open space and we are protecting open space generally.

  150.  Do you not distinguish between the general perception of open space and the perception of allotments? One of the concerns I would have is that the public actually tends to have a much greater awareness of the status and the importance of the defence of a public open space against encroachments, whereas I guess because quite often the public sees something rather strange going on behind a high wall and a bunch of hedges with cuts in them they do not have the same perception about the need to defend allotment sites. Do you think that is true?

  (Mr Branaghan)  In my own authority there are a number of allotment sites which are not used at the present time but they actually serve a purpose as public open space informally because they have gone over to wildlife sites and within our local plan we identify them as a network for the wildlife corridor. In that respect, if we were to apply to do a development on an allotment site at the present time we would be faced with the fact that we are actually infringing into what is theoretically public open space. It does not mean that it cannot take place but it means there is a bigger debate that takes place if an application is made.

  151.  Are you not encouraged by the proposal from the DETR that they will be looking at PPG 17 again and that might, might it not, help you in your determination to protect allotments?

  (Cllr Gavron)  I think statutory local authority leisure plans combined with strong planning policies would help us enormously.

  152.  But if they strengthen PPG 17, which was supporting the use of allotments, would that not help you further?

  (Cllr Gavron)  Yes.

  153.  We have for commercial uses such a thing as "established use" and after a number of years, ten or 12, there are certain rights accruing. Could it not be that if an allotment has been around for 30 years we could give that some greater credibility in the long term and then perhaps it could apply to become a statutory and not a temporary provision?

  (Cllr Gavron)  I think we are uncertain about this.

I understand exactly the point you are making. Our gut reaction is that that is going to deter authorities from letting allotments exist temporarily in the first place or deter landowners and that is a bit of a worry. I think we ought to go away and think about what you have said.
Christine Butler:  What I meant was for those sites that have already been around as temporary for 25, 30 years or more, could we not have a look at those to see if we could apply for those to become statutory?

  154.  Perhaps you would like to have a bit more thought on that and let us have a note.

  (Cllr Gavron)  I think we should think harder about it.

  155.  The Local Government Association expresses some frustration in relation to local authority roles, responsibilities and funding. I believe you also suggest that the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions should research the role of standards in allotment provision along with the issues of money and funding. Can you tell me how you intend to tackle this particular problem in making any submissions to the Department? Do you believe that the problems local authorities in general experience in maintaining allotments are sufficiently well understood by the Department and by the public? Do you believe the Department truly understands the frustrations of local authorities in providing allotments for members of the public?

  (Mr Branaghan)  The DETR?

  156.  Yes. Do you have a strategy to put to the Department to try and promote more awareness, to carry out more research to assist local authorities in providing and maintaining and promoting allotments?

  (Cllr Gavron)  Should the Department provide some funding to local authorities, is that the question?

  157.  No, that is not the question. It perhaps borders on a question I asked, unfortunately, before you came into the meeting. It could border on whether indeed allotments are receiving their fair share of financial resources which are being allocated to the leisure departments in councils. I am trying to help you here. Do you really have a strategy to put to the Department?

  (Cllr Whitmore)  I think the simple answer is probably no. I think this inquiry is to be very much welcomed. Certainly in my years in local government and in the Association of Metropolitan Authorities I do not remember us ever discussing at a national level the issue of allotments at all, so I think that this is very much to be welcomed.

  158.  I am referring to the research of the Local Government Association.

  (Cllr Whitmore)  I think there is a lot that we will be taking away as a result of what we have said here in evidence to yourselves back to our own local authorities. There is a mystique amongst members of the public about how they go about getting an allotment. Usually they know there is a local society and if they happen to know a member of that society they will know how to go about having one, but certainly there is a lot there that we need to look at in terms of giving that open access, of getting people into the allotment plots. What we have said at the beginning was that yes, we do think that there is going to be an increase but we have a duty to ensure that the public are aware of the provision and are part of that process. I think what is being done here is certainly going to cause us in local government to have a debate with our member authorities.

  159.  Your evidence does indicate that you have concerns on funding and responsibilities but that you do not have a strategy. I am trying to off-load it onto the Department. Is the Local Government Association not capable of developing a strategy themselves?

  (Cllr Gavron)  We have the concerns about the funding for parks, we have the concerns about funding for play spaces. There are numerous concerns for local authorities but also numerous pressures on funding.

Many leisure facilities and many priorities for sustainable healthy living are being underfunded at the moment and we are all racking our brains on how we can do better. This is an extremely welcome and timely inquiry at a time when we are looking at the modernisation of local government, reconnecting it with neighbourhoods. Allotments are incredibly important within neighbourhoods as a form of community development, as little lungs. There is also the whole sustainability agenda. So allotments are going to be seen as a greater priority by local authorities than they have been in the past.

5   Note by witness: See supplementary memorandaum AL34 (a). Back