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11.13 pm
The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Alun Michael): The hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Baldry) has made his case in a reasonable and measured manner, but I regret his stated intention, with others, to obstruct progress on a sensible and balanced proposal by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, supported by the Government, in respect of an important matter of concern.
I shall deal first with two specific points. The hon. Gentleman suggested that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has not published his reasons for establishing a freemasons' register other than through a press release. That is not the case. On 17 February, the day of the press release, my right hon. Friend appeared before the Select Committee on Home Affairs and gave evidence on his reasons for establishing the register. That sitting was public and it was reported in Hansard.
Secondly, it is worth pointing out to the hon. Gentleman that the grand lodge, like my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, knew full well what the Select Committee on Home Affairs had recommended and was aware of the Government's response. My right hon. Friend wrote fully to Commander Higham on 27 March.
I welcome the fact that the hon. Gentleman declares his interest as a freemason. I welcome also the fact that others are open about exercising the option that the hon. Gentleman described as choosing to be ridiculous in private. Perhaps that applies more widely. One of the great freedoms open to humanity is to look and to be ridiculous. Indeed, it is what many of us do best, but that is not the issue which leads to the approach that the Government have adopted.
It is not only my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State who considers the issue important. The matter has been the subject of massive concern and debate over many years. The Government decided to adopt a measured and moderate response after careful consideration of the report of the Select Committee on Home Affairs. I therefore welcome the opportunity to set out the Government's policy in relation to the declaration and registration of membership of the freemasons by those employed or appointed within the criminal justice system, or who seek such employment or appointment.
It is worth underlining the fact that it is the criminal justice system that we are talking about, which is one of the bastions of a free society and of our democratic processes. It is extremely important that it should be free from bias and for that to be seen to be the case.
Before getting into the detail of the arrangements, I should make it clear, as my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has said, that the Government do not see a problem with freemasonry itself. The Government are concerned solely with dealing fairly and effectively with the legitimate public expectation that the rights and freedoms of all are properly observed and safeguarded in any dealings with the various parts of the criminal justice system.
I think that that is apparent from what my right hon. Friend said to the Select Committee on Home Affairs on 17 February:
The Government announced on 17 February that all new appointments, whether full-time or part-time posts, to the judiciary, the police, the legally qualified staff of the Crown Prosecution Service and the probation and prison services will have to declare their membership of the freemasons as a condition of service. Any later admission to the freemasons after taking up post will also be declarable.
I shall move on to how the Government can best resolve the issue of openness and disclosure about membership of the freemasons in relation to those already serving in the relevant occupations and professions within the criminal justice system. The House will be aware that the view of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, shared by the Government, is that the best solution is for freemasonry itself to publicise the information. However, we know from various comments, which have been reinforced by the hon. Gentleman this evening, that that will not happen. That is regrettable. Consequently, the Government have decided that the various parts of the criminal justice system should open registers and invite serving office holders and employees to declare whether or not they are members of the freemasons.
The Government will consult on where the registers should be available, but, in any event, the Government believe that they should be publicly available. This entirely voluntary arrangement will be reviewed in the context of the need for legislation, having regard to the extent of compliance with the voluntary registers, once they are established. I invite the hon. Gentleman and others to reconsider the view that they would push the Government to introduce legislation. That seemed to be the implication of the hon. Gentleman's remarks.
Since the Government announcement on 17 February, we have had discussions with two of the groups that were not mentioned in the original statement: coroners clerks and justices clerks, both of which will be included in the terms of the declaration and registration policy. The position in relation to members of police authorities is also to be considered.
Concerns have been expressed that the declaration and registration policy might be incompatible with the terms of the European convention on human rights, in particular article 8 which concerns respect for private and family life. There is no conflict between the ECHR's provisions and our policy in respect of those working in the criminal justice system who are freemasons.
The two key points are that our policy has nothing to do with interfering in an individual's choice about the freemasons, and that the provisions of the ECHR concerning an individual's rights and freedoms are expressed within the corresponding balance of the freedoms and rights of others. It is important to reinforce my point that the Government are concerned about maintaining and improving openness and transparency within the criminal justice system. Given that membership of the freemasons can raise suspicions of a lack of impartiality or objectivity, those matters would be most effectively dealt with if the public had access to the facts.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned a previous arrangement whereby freemasons registered with the local clerk of the peace. I do not pretend to be an expert in the law, but my understanding is that the provisions of the Unlawful Societies Act 1799, inter alia, required the secretary of each freemasonry lodge to send an annual list of members to the local clerk of the peace, as the hon. Gentleman said. It is difficult to know what purpose the lists served, but they were not made public and were solely for the use of the magistracy. The arrangements were repealed by the Criminal Law Act 1967.
I am not convinced that the legislation was observed to the letter of the law up to 1967. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can tell me whether lists were dispatched annually. I am also unsure of the purpose of the system. It has been suggested to me that fear of revolutionary activity following the French revolution 10 years earlier led to the passage of such legislation, which would mean that the image of the freemasons in 1799 was different from their image this century.
Such an arrangement would not meet public expectations or Government policy, primarily because we believe that the register should be publicly available. Our policy in relation to declaration and registration of membership of the freemasons, as I hope that I have clearly explained, is entirely concerned with the public's expectations regarding the fairness and integrity of the criminal justice system.
Those issues gave rise to concerns that were examined with great care by the Home Affairs Committee. It did not leap to conclusions or produce answers without having given them careful thought. Nor will we move forward without consulting on the way in which the requirements that the Home Secretary explained to the Home Affairs Committee in February would be carried through. We shall press on with the work needed to ensure that the implementation of the policy later this year is consistent and efficient across the component parts of the criminal justice system. I hope that the hon. Gentleman accepts the reasoned way in which the matter is being approached.
Question put and agreed to.
"There is no suggestion whatever that if people want to join the freemasons they should be stopped from doing so. I do not find anything about the freemasons offensive."
Our interest is concerned entirely with the public's expectations regarding the fairness and integrity of the criminal justice system. It is an interest which is clearly shared by the Select Committee on Home Affairs--that is made clear in its third report for 1996-97--and, among others, by the Association of Chief Police Officers.
Adjourned accordingly at twenty-three minutes past Eleven o'clock.
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