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Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Sir Geoffrey Johnson Smith.
12.42 pm
Sir Geoffrey Johnson Smith (Wealden): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) on initiating the debate and engaging the support of the hon. Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George), who chairs the Select Committee. I speak as a relic of dad's army, who, after that service, joined the Army proper in 1942. One lesson that I learned from my father was that this country of ours never has an army large enough to withstand a major threat. That was why Lord Haldane, in the early part of the century, introduced reforms that brought the TA under the control of the Ministry of Defence.
Even today, in the absence of any major threat, the Army finds it necessary to use the services of skilled people in the TA. I find it, therefore, all the more astonishing that we should even begin to contemplate the dumbing-down of the TA and the reduction of its role in our armed forces.
Mr. John Burnett (Torridge and West Devon):
I join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) on securing this important debate at such a crucial time. The Minister will have noticed that the debate is a combined operation--all the main parties are united in their support for the combat arms of the Territorial Army. The Royal Marines, in which I was privileged to serve, the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force all have minimal reserves now, but, thank goodness, the TA can still deploy large formed units of battalion strength.
The TA's combat units buttress our county regiments, which are the envy of armies throughout the world. The 4th Battalion the Devonshire and Dorset Regiment has companies in Plymouth, Exeter and Dorchester, where they are a vital aid to recruitment and to our cadet service. Their combat role, however, is the most important of all.
Infantry soldiers exist ultimately for the purpose of combat. It is the team or unit that is so desperately important; at present, we still have those units. I hope that the strategic defence review will do nothing to undermine them.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. I should perhaps tell the House that there seems to be some misunderstanding about the rules that apply to these half-hour Adjournment debates. They are essentially for the person raising the subject and for the Minister. By special permission both of the originator of the debate and of the Minister, others may also participate for a short time. That must be determined beforehand and notified to the Chair.
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Dr. John Reid):
I am sorry that so many hon. Members did not get a chance to speak in this short debate. I can only suggest that, if they want to congratulate the TA, they should stand up and shout out the names of their local units, which will then be recorded.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) on securing this timely debate. He is an experienced and doughty fighter for the Territorial Army, and if anyone was to be lucky enough to secure today's debate, it should have been him.
We are lucky indeed to be able to call on the hon. Gentleman's expertise and on that of other hon. Members present in the Chamber. I have listened carefully to what has been said not just this morning but throughout the past nine months.
The hon. Member for Canterbury was less than generous in his characterisation of the review. Not even the worst enemy of the Ministry could deny that this has been the most open and consultative exercise ever carried out by the MOD. It has included seminars, panels, written and oral submissions and discussions, in the Chamber and elsewhere. The TA has been involved in meetings and providing input; the hon. Gentleman has submitted papers to us as well. Only yesterday, I met yet another delegation from the TA--I am sure that it will not be the last.
I should not like anyone to gain the impression from the hon. Gentleman's remarks that the Territorial Army has not been well served. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman may wish, on reflection, to retract his implication--I am sure that he will--that there has been a conspiracy in the Navy or the Regular Army. I should like to thank all the services for the way they have approached the debate. They have not tried to defend the status quo or their own services or units. They have attempted genuinely to analyse current needs and then, irrespective of the effect on their own services, to work out a coherent configuration for our defence. That has been the purpose of the review and the starting point of our approach to the Territorial Army and all other units.
Mr. Allan Rogers (Rhondda):
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Dr. Reid:
Yes; my hon. Friend can give us the name of the unit.
Mr. Rogers:
I am an ex-Regular Army and ex-Territorial Army soldier. During the review, will my hon. Friend take into account the usefulness of the cadet forces in constituencies such as mine in the valley communities? They make an enormous social contribution and are a focus for community activity.
Dr. Reid:
I shall indeed; my respect for and commitment to the cadet forces is well known. I do not understand how the right hon. Member for Wealden (Sir G. Johnson Smith) has gained the impression that we are in any way diminishing the role of the cadets--we have supported them. I should like the resources that are given to them to be increased, but we must await the outcome of the review. We must not count our chickens before they are hatched, or set up straw men.
It is unfair to suggest that reservists have been excluded from work on the reserve forces. They have participated directly in the review, and, like all other service personnel, have been free to make submissions to the review team. They are freer than any other element of our armed forces to articulate their views and lobby for their cause publicly. Notwithstanding the odd major or two, many other elements of our armed forces do not have such freedom. While I appreciate the strength of hon. Members' feelings about the Territorial Army, we should not diminish the feelings of other sections of our armed forces about the traditions, expertise and capabilities that they bring to our defence output. We asked for and accepted submissions; we sought people's views, and I am grateful to those who responded.
I stress that, at this stage, no final decisions have been made on the reserves or on any other aspect of defence. Defence Ministers have drawn conclusions, based on a wide range of advice and many months' work inside and outside my Department, and with the Foreign Office, especially on security analysis. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has submitted detailed proposals to the Prime Minister and other Cabinet colleagues for collective decision. I am confident that the outcome will be good for the reserve forces, as well as for the armed forces as a whole and for the nation.
I shall respond as best I can in the limited time to some of the points that the hon. Member for Canterbury and his colleagues have made, but I make it clear that, ultimately, our force structures must be shaped by our defence needs. No one has greater respect than I for the traditions and past of our armed forces, but the point of the strategic defence review is to ensure that those units and forces form a coherent, usable and relevant structure for today and for tomorrow, and do not merely reflect the past.
When we took office and I became Minister of State, we found our regular armed forces seriously undermanned, struggling under a heavy load of day-to-day commitments and desperately lacking in the unglamorous but essential areas of lift capacity, sustainability, defence medical services and a host of other elements that are equal to the reserves in our consideration of our ultimate fighting output. Our regular forces are coupled with a large but undernourished reserve, much of which is predicated on home defence roles that should have expired with the cold war and whose chief contribution is plugging gaps, which should not exist, in our regular forces.
I believe that we can improve the situation that we inherited, and that we owe it to the regulars and the reserves to do so. We have made it clear that we recognise that our reserve forces are an important part of our defence capability. Indeed, we have paid lavish tribute to the important work being carried out by members of the reserve forces who have been deployed on operations in Bosnia. I repeat that they have done a great job, of which they and hon. Members are justifiably proud.
We are committed to making better use of our reserve forces, and I aim to ensure that they are capable, usable and relevant to our overall defence needs and the modern strategic environment. I have no doubt that the results of the review will include an imaginative and exciting blueprint for the future of the reserve forces.
We have heard much today about the need for a strategic reserve, and we recognise that the reserves could serve as the basis for expanding our forces if a major
threat emerged. I assure hon. Members that changes to our force structures that might come about as a result of the strategic defence review will enhance, rather than detract from, our operational capability.
It is essential to consider what our armed forces are likely to have to do in future.
12.46 pm
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