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14. Mr. Keith Hill (Streatham): What assessment he has made of progress towards democratic civilian government in Nigeria; and if he will make a statement. [36545]
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Tony Lloyd): We, along with the European Union, the Commonwealth and other partners, are following closely General Abacha's transition to civil rule. To date, we have concluded that in the absence of freedom of association or speech, and while the draft constitution of 1995 remains unpublished, there has been no real progress towards the restoration of democracy.
Mr. Hill: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Does it remain the Government's policy that it will not be acceptable to Britain for General Abacha to transform himself into a civilian president?
Mr. Lloyd: We have always made it clear that the decision about who should be president must rest with the Nigerian people on the basis of a free and transparently fair electoral system. Those requirements have still not been met. We have appealed to the Nigerian Government to ensure that those conditions are put in place, but we are still waiting for real progress in that direction.
Mr. Bob Russell (Colchester): While everyone is attempting to bring civilian rule back to Nigeria, is it helpful to deport Nigerians from this country back to a country where, as we have just been told, civilian democracy does not exist?
Mr. Lloyd: The question of refugees is a matter for the Home Office. Conditions in Nigeria have led to the detention of journalists, the erosion of civil rights and the deaths of some people in prison. Unfortunately, those conditions also create a lively traffic in people who use the asylum system to pursue other ends. Sadly, they do so at the expense of the genuine refugees to whom this country would willingly give shelter.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North): Does the Minister agree that it is important that international human rights organisations and delegations from other human rights groups should have an opportunity to visit Nigeria to assess for themselves prison conditions and the treatment of people there? Will he do what he can to encourage the Nigerian high commission and the Nigerian Government to lay themselves open to the kind of
international humanitarian examination that the regime certainly needs, in terms of looking at prison conditions and the lack of freedom of association, which the Minister rightly mentioned in an earlier answer?
Mr. Lloyd: We know that prison conditions in Nigeria are not good. That is evident from the recent death of Shehu Musa Yar'Adua, who was a soldier of great integrity and whose death was widely mourned by, I think, the overwhelming majority of decent Nigerians. The Nigerian Human Rights Commission has itself criticised conditions in the prisons. My hon. Friend is right to say that it would be in the interests of all Nigerians and, indeed, in the end the Nigerian Government to make the process much more transparent. Sadly, I must record that I do not think that they are prepared to take that direction at the moment.
Mr. Ian Bruce (South Dorset): Does the Minister agree that the Nigerian people had their say and elected a president, and that General Abacha is simply a crook who did not want to give up the chance of continuing to line his pockets? Her Majesty's Government should treat him in that way and should not dignify him with the title of President of Nigeria.
Mr. Lloyd: There certainly was an election in 1993 and the international community as well as Nigerians believed that it was probably the fairest election that Nigeria had ever had. It certainly produced in Chief Abiola a person who was widely seen to be the victor. For his heinous crime of winning the election, Chief Abiola has languished in prison almost ever since. It is an outrage that he, together with General Obasanjo and 20 Ogonis, are held as political prisoners. We call on the Nigerians to release those in prison and to lay the foundations for a proper electoral process for the Nigerian people who are sovereign in the destiny of that country.
15. Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): Pursuant to his oral answer of 18 March 1998, Official Report, column 1266, if he will assess the advantages of lifting the embargo on the export of pumping equipment to Iraq; and what proposals he has to assist Iraq in improving the quality of water for domestic consumption. [36546]
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Derek Fatchett): Paragraph 12 of Security Council resolution 1153 requests the Secretary-General to establish a group of experts to assess Iraq's ability to export sufficient petroleum or petroleum products to finance the expanded oil-for-food programme. On the basis of the group's recommendations, authorisation may be given for certain equipment to be imported to enable Iraq to increase oil output. Some of the proceeds under the expanded oil-for-food programme, which was set up by resolution 1153, will be available for rehabilitation of water and sanitation infrastructures.
Mr. Dalyell: In view of the likelihood of the havoc that could be created by waterborne disease among the
children of Iraq, is not it a matter of great urgency for pumps to be repaired? What is the perceived danger in the export of pumping equipment?
Mr. Fatchett: I remind my hon. Friend of the answer that I have just given, which is that, under the new procedures of resolution 1153, it is possible to satisfy some of the needs to which he refers. The matter will be controlled and regulated under the Security Council resolution. My hon. Friend may also be keen to know that, as part of its EU presidency, the United Kingdom is organising a conference on humanitarian aid to the people of Iraq. That will take place later this month and will give us the opportunity to bring together organisations from various countries which are working under the auspices of the United Nations. Hopefully, they will address some of the issues to which my hon. Friend refers.
Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is highly desirable for the embargoes to be lifted as soon as that is conveniently and suitably possible? Does he also agree that the Annan agreement on the weapons inspectors has meant that, because of the burden of work, the weapons inspectors will take longer than before to do the deal which, the Minister rightly says, needs to be done thoroughly? What steps can he take to assist Richard Butler and his weapons inspectors to speed up their inspections so that the embargoes may safely be lifted?
Mr. Fatchett: I have every confidence in Richard Butler and his team. They are getting on with their work to the best of their ability and at the speed at which they are allowed to proceed by the Iraqi regime. We shall certainly encourage them to move as quickly as possible, but the objective for all of us is to ensure that Iraq is free of weapons of mass destruction. That is the responsibility of the UNSCOM inspectors. The simple truth, which the hon. Gentleman recognised in his question, is that had Saddam Hussein complied with Security Council resolutions many years ago, all of these issues would have been resolved, and Iraq would have been free of sanctions and of weapons of mass destruction.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington): What checks are in place to ensure that invoices relating to equipment imported by the Iraqis under the resolutions reflect the real export value from the countries of origin? Is not there a danger that unless proper checks are in place, over-invoicing of equipment will simply lead to moneys effectively being pooled by Iraqi business men and Ministers abroad?
Mr. Fatchett: My hon. Friend makes a valid point. If the system is working in the way he fears, we would certainly wish to hear evidence to substantiate his concerns. We are keen to make sure that the sanctions regime is fair and efficient--it should be fair to the ordinary people of Iraq, but should also allow the United Nations to meet its objectives and targets. Certainly, we do not wish to see the system bypassed in the way that my hon. Friend fears or in any other way. Again, if he has any useful information, I would be delighted to see it.
Mr. Michael Howard (Folkestone and Hythe): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In answer to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Westbury (Mr. Faber), the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Leeds, Central (Mr. Fatchett), said that it was the Opposition's policy to scrap all licences for the export of defence equipment. There is no basis for that statement, and the Minister of State knows that there is no basis for that statement. Will you now give him the opportunity to withdraw it?
Madam Speaker: That is not a point of order for me, and the right hon. and learned Gentleman must be aware that it is not. It is a question of argument. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman wishes to table another question to the Foreign Office Minister, he is at liberty to do so, but it is not a point of order at this stage.
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