THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
OFFICIAL REPORT
IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY-SECOND PARLIAMENT OF THE
UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
[WHICH OPENED 7 MAY 1997]
FORTY-SEVENTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF
HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II
SIXTH SERIES
VOLUME 309
SIXTEENTH VOLUME OF SESSION 1997-98
House of Commons
Monday 23 March 1998
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
Oral Answers to Questions
SOCIAL SECURITY
The Secretary of State was asked--
Retirement Pensioners
2. Sir Teddy Taylor: If she will make a statement on the total number of retirement pensioners (a) at the latest available date, (b) five and (c) 10 years ago. [34043]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. John Denham): There were 10.7 million retirement pensioners at 30 September 1997. Five years ago there were 10.3 million pensioners and10 years ago there were 9.9 million pensioners.
Sir Teddy Taylor: Retirement pensioners are now a substantial proportion of the community. Is the Minister aware of the genuine concern and alarm among pensioners about reports of a fundamental review that might lead to the retirement pension being means-tested? Can the Minister give a clear and categorical statement
that that is untrue? Can he confirm that he and his fellow Ministers will resign if there is any such Government proposal?
Mr. Denham: I am pleased to make it clear to the House that we have a manifesto commitment to retain the basic state pension as the foundation for retirement provision and to uprate it at least in line with prices. We have more than honoured that commitment by taking the unprecedented step of issuing winter fuel payments to all pensioners who have fuel bills this winter.
Mr. Duncan Smith: More than a week and a half ago the Minister attended a dinner held by the Association of Consulting Actuaries at which the chairman told the Government that
- "they must stop loosening the foundations on which the hitherto robust system of Occupational Schemes is built."
- "were clearly not thought through at the time of the Mini-Budget."
Mr. Denham: At that enjoyable dinner, which the hon. Gentleman also attended, I was able to make it clear that the Government wish to support and strengthen the framework for occupational pensions. During the pensions review we are looking at the regulatory system for occupational pensions and how the best occupational schemes can be marked by a quality pensions award. We are also examining ways to improve pension scheme members' understanding of their schemes and their entitlements.
Sir Teddy Taylor: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In view of the Minister's unsatisfactory and ambiguous reply, I give notice that I intend to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
Violence Against Women
3. Ms Squire: If she will make a statement on the Government's plans to tackle violence againstwomen. [34044]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Ms Joan Ruddock): The Ministers for Women have been working with Ministers from across Government Departments on this issue. A national strategy for England and Wales on tackling all forms of violence against women will be published in the autumn. The Scottish Office is producing a strategy on tackling all forms of violence against women in Scotland, along the same lines as the national strategy.
Ms Squire: I welcome my hon. Friend's statement about a national strategy. Is she aware that the demand for refuge accommodation by victims of domestic violence throughout England, Wales and Scotland has increased? For example, last year, in Dunfermline, 246 women had to be turned away, and throughout Scotland more than 4,000 women and 6,000 children were turned away because of a lack of suitable accommodation. Does she agree that there is no excuse for violent criminal behaviour that causes women and children to flee their homes and that it is vital that combating domestic violence remains a Government priority?
Ms Ruddock: One of the prerequisites of any effective national strategy is access to accurate statistics. In our early discussions between Departments, we found many gaps. My hon. Friend will wish to know that in Scotland a research survey was commissioned by the Scottish Office to review service provision for women who had suffered domestic violence. It was published on 16 March.
I wish to announce to the House today that, with the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, our women's unit is commissioning a survey and a research report that will review the current accommodation and support needs of women fleeing domestic violence in England. Local authorities and the Women's Aid Federation (England) Ltd. will be involved and we will ensure that our Scottish colleagues are kept informed of the methods and results.
Mrs. Gillan:
Given the concern about violence against women, will the Minister tell us whether she agrees with the Secretary of State for Social Security, who believes that it is only by appointing more women judges that the Government can show that they are taking domestic violence seriously, or with the Lord Chancellor who, when putting down the Secretary of State, said that
Ms Ruddock:
I assure the hon. Lady that we are all concerned with achieving equality of opportunity. The Lord Chancellor has made it absolutely clear that he
"We cannot have positive discrimination"
in making judicial appointments and that he had
"the fullest confidence that all judges, regardless of gender, already deal with cases of domestic violence with impartiality and consideration for the victims of domestic violence"?
I can see the Secretary of State prompting the Minister. Will she tell us independently who she agrees with: the Secretary of State or the Lord Chancellor?
Child Support Agency
4. Mr. McNulty: If she will make a statement on the Government's policy in respect of reform of the Child Support Agency. [34045]
11. Mr. Baker: If she will make a statement on the principles underlying the Government's review of the Child Support Agency. [34052]
The Secretary of State for Social Security and Minister for Women (Ms Harriet Harman): This Government believe that all children are entitled to the financial and emotional support of both their parents, wherever they live. We are examining closely all aspects of the child support system and we expect to bring forward our proposals for consultation by the summer.
Mr. McNulty: I thank my right hon. Friend for that response. Most people will agree with the principle of the CSA, but not with the cack-handed way in which it was introduced by the previous Government. Will she ensure that the outcome of any review is both fairer and simpler not just for parents and children, but for CSA staff, and that it is clearly linked both with the excellent Budget proposals on families and children and with the forthcoming Green Paper on welfare reform?
Ms Harman: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Hon. Members on both sides of the House agree on the principle that parents should support their children. We further agree that that principle has not been put into practice properly by child support legislation and the agencies that work under it.
I invite the House to consider three further points. We face some difficult choices in the necessary reform of child support. First, what is the appropriate balance between the interests of the first and second families? Secondly, what is the right balance between a clear, simple and straightforward system and a complex system that deals very closely with individual needs? Thirdly, what is the right balance between the need of parents with care to receive income for their children and the interests of taxpayers not to have to support other people's children? Those are the three issues that the House will have to discuss further and come to an agreement on.
Mr. Rendel:
Does the Secretary of State expect any new formula to apply only to new cases, or will it apply also to cases that have already been agreed under CSA regulations--which would lead to difficulties such as cases being reopened and redecided and a lot of losers?
Ms Harman:
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We are trying to reform a system, but it is difficult to do so when we have a great tangle and a sense--and the reality--of injustice. For people who have had incorrect awards made and those who have had correct awards made but who have failed to pay, the issue of transitional arrangements will be critical in achieving public
Mr. Wicks:
Given that the great majority of mothers and children on income support receive no child maintenance from their fathers, will the Secretary of State consider setting a new target to tackle the tough cases: the men who are determined never to pay a penny? In my advice surgery on Friday night, I met a mother who had supplied all the information that was needed to the CSA. Two years on, she is still not receiving a penny.
Ms Harman:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: there is a huge sense of grievance among absent parents--usually fathers--when there is a delay in assessing maintenance and then, suddenly, they are hit with large arrears that might turn out to be incorrect; there is also a burning sense of grievance among parents with care--usually mothers--that although a correct award has been made, fathers sometimes avoid paying.
We are dealing with difficult issues. We need to keep a sense of principle--that parents should be prepared to pay--but the system must also be fair. The problem is that the principle of parental payment has been undermined by very poor delivery and a failed administration.
Miss McIntosh:
Does the Secretary of State agree that the Child Support Agency plays a crucial role in helping abandoned families? What percentage of staff time is spent processing matters relating to absent parents, whether they be male or female? How many appeals under the new procedure are being processed?
Ms Harman:
There are 8,000 members of staff dealing with the 600,000 live case load, as it is called, but there are 800,000 further cases where no assessment has been made. I will write to the hon. Lady with any further detailed information that she wants.
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