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Mr. Hoon: The process of modernisation of the justice system will continue on a number of fronts simultaneously. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we shall consider carefully any proposals for saving money in the magistrates courts and on family cases. We shall establish a system of contracting, which will bear down on the considerable costs of family work.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough): Does my hon. Friend agree that, in most areas of public expenditure, there are robust mechanisms to ensure the quality of the service that the public are paying for? Is the proposal for allowing perhaps only a limited number of expert firms to take on medical negligence work a first step so that in other areas where specialist legal knowledge is needed, we might examine ways of ensuring quality for people who depend on legal aid?
Mr. Hoon: That is exactly the direction in which the Government intend to go. I hope that the use of experts in relation to medical negligence cases will establish a useful precedent for the use of expert lawyers elsewhere. Once Parliament has approved any legislation that we bring forward, contracting will allow us to contract only with those who are expert and knowledgeable in particular areas of law. That seems a wholly welcome development, for the benefit of practitioners, and, above all, for the benefit of those whose cases go before the courts.
Mr. Richard Allan (Sheffield, Hallam): The Minister will be aware that many disadvantaged people use law centres to access the legal system. Law centres depend on voluntary workers, solicitors and bits of local authority spending. Does he envisage direct Government support for law centres as part of his legal aid reform package?
Mr. Hoon: Very much so. Indeed, in the summer, Parliament approved changes in statutory instruments that allow legal aid money to be used to pay the salaries of lawyers who work in law centres and for citizens advice bureaux and similar advice-giving agencies. As part of the community legal service, I look forward to an extension of that provision, to move the traditional legal aid away from simply supporting particular cases towards supporting institutions that are providing advice and assistance to those most in need.
Mr. Ross Cranston (Dudley, North): I, too, warmly welcome my hon. Friend's statement. Does he agree that, parallel to the changes in the legal aid system, we need to
be thinking about new ways of resolving disputes? I know that his Department is involved in developing protocols, for example. Does he agree with the Woolf inquiry recommendation that private ombudsmen or alternative forms of dispute resolution need to be encouraged?
Mr. Hoon: My hon. Friend was a very distinguished member of the inquiry. He probably knows rather more about the details of the preparation than even I do. I am most grateful to him for his suggestions. The Government are determined to develop alternatives to going to court. Mediation is certainly one. A range of other options are available to us. Anything that can reduce the cost and time taken in litigation must be welcomed.
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): Does the Minister agree that one of the consequences of the proposals is that the power of the state will be greatly increased? The system will involve discrimination by the state about which categories of litigation should command state support through legal aid.
In that context, the Minister made a differentiation in ring fencing housing cases but excluded, as an example, disputes between neighbours over boundaries. It is my experience that disputes over boundaries often involve the harassment of a person with no means by a neighbour with considerable means and a willingness to resort to litigation, which makes the life of the former a complete misery. How is the distinction between the two categories of housing and boundary disputes to be drawn?
Mr. Hoon:
If the hon. Member will forgive me for saying so, I did not entirely follow his reasoning about the power of the state. That may be my fault. I assure him that legal aid will continue to be available to those who wish to bring actions against the state in its various guises.
On neighbourhood disputes, the issue is not whether the state has an interest in determining who should or should not bring a case but whether it is possible to fund such a case--whether by legal aid or some other means. We are simply proposing--I hope that the hon. Member will respond to the consultation--that, in disputes between neighbours, particularly over where a fence should be or how much land is owned by one party or the other, a fund is available which allows such litigation to take place on the basis of conditional fees, rather than having to expend taxpayers' valuable and scarce resources on paying for such private disputes.
Mr. Gareth Thomas (Clwyd, West):
May I welcome my hon. Friend's statement? Those who have been involved professionally in this area know that radical reform to improve access to justice is long overdue. However, as I am sure that he would agree, difficult questions need to be resolved. Will any fixed costs under any fast track for litigation which may be developed take into account the fact that, to some extent, solicitors will be using successful cases to subsidise unsuccessful cases?
Mr. Hoon:
My hon. Friend knows that the question of fixed costs and the regime that will operate are subject to separate consultations. He has made his views on the matter known on previous occasions. We are still
Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon):
On affordability, the Minister suggested that the figure of £150 or so, which would be way beyond the means of the poor, might be covered by some sort of further insurance for legal expenses. However, as the poor typically cannot afford to insure even the contents of their homes, would not taking out further insurance--unless they were forced to do so--be the last thing that they would think of doing?
Mr. Hoon:
I am sorry if I gave that impression to the hon. Gentleman. What, essentially, I would say about such cases is that there is no reason why innovative insurance products should not take up the cost of the up-front insurance--it is not always absolutely necessary for someone to pay the £150 in advance of litigation. Alternatively, there is no reason why a firm of lawyers, confident of the outcome, should not meet the cost of insurance in an appropriate case. I sought to explain that we expect partnerships to develop between lawyers and insurance companies, perhaps involving the banking sector, too, to allow such cases to go to court for such litigants.
Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East):
Like other Members, I am worried about medical negligence cases, especially the serious cases involving the death of a young breadwinner. Is my hon. Friend aware that many such cases are carried all the way almost to the day of entering court, when everything is almost proven, but that, at the last minute before the court hearing, solicitors try to put pressure on plaintiffs to drop cases or to accept paltry damages out of court, on the ground that the legal aid, which appears to have been capped, is running out? Does he agree that when so much legal aid money has been spent and the case is almost proven, it should go to court so that justice is seen to be done? I have given my hon. Friend an example of such a case, although obviously I cannot cite the details now.
Mr. Hoon:
I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern, and I would certainly welcome from him in writing the details of any particular case; I hope that he will accept that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on a particular case at this stage.
It is unlikely that a legal aid certificate will run out. One of the problems with legal aid is often that once it is granted it supports a case to the conclusion of a court hearing, even when those who have heard the case might judge that it was not entirely appropriate for it to have been brought in the first place. The Department has received several representations from judges questioning whether legal aid should ever have been granted in certain cases.
I hope that my hon. Friend will accept that our proposals for medical negligence cases will guarantee access to legal aid for the moment for those who presently enjoy it, but will also point the way to significant change by ensuring that only those who are expert and specialist in the field will be able to act on behalf of plaintiffs. I hope that that safeguard will satisfy him that we are carefully considering the position of such plaintiffs.
Mr. David Kidney (Stafford):
Several hon. Members have made suggestions about the best use of any savings
Mr. Hoon:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his observations. I have made it clear that to fund our manifesto commitment to create a community legal service, the Government need first to bring the costs of traditional legal aid under control. When we have done so, we can consider ways of funding the community legal service. We see the regional committees as providing a local element in terms of identifying the needs of different parts of the country. In rural areas, there may be different needs and priorities, and we expect that the regional committees will be in a position to identify those and to communicate local needs and concerns to the Legal Aid Board.
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