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Mr. Richard Allan (Sheffield, Hallam): The right hon. Gentleman seems to be making the case for the regions from which MEPs are to be elected to be conterminous with the regions in which the regional development
agencies will be located. That is precisely what the Bill will do. The business matters to which the right hon. Gentleman refers operate at a regional level.
Mr. Curry: The hon. Gentleman would have a point if it were not for the fact that, under the proposed system, MEPs will have to compete for the affections of the RDAs--I shall come to that point in a moment.
Current European constituencies are large and--let us be honest--slightly incoherent. Some MEPs represent counties, which have an historical identity, whereas others represent areas carved from different counties, which lack that identity. The hon. Member for Moray (Mrs. Ewing) represents a vast chunk of Scotland, but I suspect that her constituency has a cultural coherence. [Interruption.] I appreciate her anxiety to have an extra seat for Scotland--no doubt for Sean Connery.
Mrs. Ewing:
I did not respond immediately because my constituency is divided by the highland line and there is very much an eastern philosophy and a western philosophy. There is coherence, however, and much of it has resulted from local government reorganisation.
Mr. Curry:
I can understand the hon. Lady's point of view, as my constituency is divided by the Pennines into Craven and the area east of the Pennines. So, to all intents and purposes, I have to manage two constituencies which are radically different in character. Woe betide any MEP who thinks that my constituency can be treated as one unit.
I now turn to the region that I share with my hon. Friend the Member for Ryedale (Mr. Greenway)--Yorkshire and The Humber--which will be represented by seven MEPs. I start at the top left-hand corner of my constituency, on the Cumbrian border at the Ribblehead viaduct. One could not get much more remote. The area is characterised by the occasional train and millions of sheep. It is right in the heart of the Pennine chain. I am strongly in favour of the trains and the sheep, and I have campaigned hard to keep them. Given the present Government's policies, the train has a marginally better chance of surviving than the sheep.
My constituency continues down the Pennine chain, along the Lancashire border to the border of the Bradford city council area and the outskirts of Keighley. I have described half my Westminster constituency. It continues across the Pennines into the Vale of York, effectively to the line of the Al, and circles around Harrogate and through part of the suburbs of Leeds.
I have described just one Westminster constituency. It is difficult enough to represent such a constituency even though it is well defined and Craven has a strong sense of identity. We have to multiply that by seven or more to imagine a multiplicity of MEPs representing an extremely diverse region.
The region would comprise a vast upland area, the old West Riding and South Yorkshire--a textile area and the traditional heartland of Yorkshire, where enormous regeneration programmes have been put in place. It continues across the M62 virtually to the suburbs of Manchester, through South Yorkshire and along to the
Humber ports. The region will be represented by a single clutch of MEPs. It is colossally diverse. That is bad enough, but the situation is even worse in the south-west.
I know from experience that Devon and Cornwall are rarely on speaking terms. Cornwall regards itself as wholly distinct from Devon. In a few years' time, the River Tamar may be the only frontier in Europe where passports will still be needed.
Devon and Cornwall have very little in common with Bristol. As has been pointed out consistently, Bristol is closer to London than to the principal points in Cornwall, yet Bristol and Cornwall will both be part of a great region which is very heterogeneous. Devon and Cornwall are lumped together for EU purposes--for example, in terms of getting aid from the European Union--but they are very different. Cornwall has wholly different problems from Exeter. They are much more serious and there is high unemployment. Many people forget that Cornwall is an old industrial county which certainly deserves to stand alone for the reworking of objective 2 assistance in two or three years' time. However, it is proposed to be part of a single constituency.
The prize-winning example is that people who live in Oxford, Gillingham, Canterbury or Southampton, and anyone who lives in or goes on holiday to the Isle of Wight, will be represented by the same clutch of MEPs. That enormous great arc will be deemed part of the same constituency.
The problem is very simple. Who will identify with what, and how will they go about it? If seven MEPs are elected to represent Yorkshire and The Humber, will they sit down and say, "You take this bit, Fred, and I will take that bit. I know the farmers, so I will take the Pennine chain, and as you want an industrial bit, you had better take South Yorkshire"? Will it be a colonial carve-up, with the appointment of divisional governorships of various parts of the region?
Mrs. Anne Campbell (Cambridge):
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the very heterogeneity that he has described is a strength, because it allows the elected representative to take a much more balanced view than somebody who represents a minority interest? He has just told us that his own constituency is divided by the Pennines--an area with which I am familiar from my childhood. Most of us represent constituencies with diverse parts, but that enables us to take a more balanced view. I do not see how, by describing the area, the right hon. Gentleman is making a case for his amendment.
Mr. Curry:
It all depends on what the hon. Lady means by a balanced view. We are elected to represent people, to take their interests to governing bodies and to lobby on their behalf. We lobby in competition with representatives of different regions.
We shall have a heterogeneous set of MEPs because of the way in which things are organised. In most regions, the three principal political parties are likely to be represented. The Labour party will have chosen its candidates at head office, so we know that 80 per cent. of the election will be over for Labour candidates as soon as the apparatchiks have decided on the list. We and the Liberal Democrats have a reasonably democratic means of selection, but if there is a closed list, the election will be over for those at the top and the bottom of the list as
soon as the list if published. Only the chap who is fourth on the list will consider it worth while to fight the election. We shall therefore have a heterogeneous team.
A constituent will be able to approach the Labour candidate, the Conservative and the Liberal Democrat and see who does better. That may be good from the point of view of the constituent, but we should consider the poor chap in Brussels who is trying to be helpful. He has to see on succeeding days different delegations of MEPs--or even MEPs from the same delegation--all trying their luck. His patience will soon run out, and the quality of representations will have no credibility.
Mr. Andrew Lansley (South Cambridgeshire):
My hon. Friend the Member for Ryedale (Mr. Greenway) made the point about people going to the MEP for whom they voted. However, businesses, public bodies and educational institutions cannot do that, as, for them, party allegiance is not the essence of the matter. How will they determine which MEP to approach?
Mr. Curry:
They will be very confused indeed. There is a long tradition in Britain of seeking redress from an individual. The representative puts an individual's case before the men in peaked caps. That is the traditional role of the Member of Parliament.
Mr. Coaker:
May I ask the right hon. Gentleman about the problem that he thinks will be generated by a number of MEPs representing one region? In local authorities, wards are often represented by three or four councillors, who may be from different political parties, but it does not seem to be a problem. Many people in those wards see that as an improvement.
Mr. Curry:
As the hon. Gentleman will know, representatives on local authorities with multi-member wards are elected individually in annual elections. If that is not the case, it is difficult to see why the Labour party is so enthusiastic in its consultation paper about reorganising, revitalising or reinventing local government about having annual elections in order to exercise some democratic control over local government.
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr. Michael J. Martin):
Order. The right hon. Gentleman is now addressing the next set of amendments. We are discussing the size of the regions, not the system of voting. If the right hon. Gentleman sticks to the amendments before us, perhaps we can dispose of them and move on to the next subject.
Mr. Curry:
I was overcome by the spirit of generosity in trying to reply accurately to the question from the other side of the Committee. The parallel that was put to me is not precise. In local government, one votes for a named person. Under the proposals for the European Parliament, the electorate will be invited to vote for a list. Before the first member of the public casts the first vote on election day, we shall know the names of 80 per cent. of those who will turn up in the European Parliament.
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