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Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton): Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if the appeasers in the House and in the soft-centre press had had their way, and if the threat of force and the maintenance of sanctions had not been there, Kofi Annan's agreement would not have been possible? Will he confirm that, until not only resolution 687 but all relevant United Nations resolutions are complied with, sanctions will remain? Will he confirm also that this is it--that if this agreement is broken by Saddam Hussein, force will inevitably follow?
The Prime Minister: That is certainly right on the first point. As for the latter point, that is exactly the purpose of securing the new Security Council resolution. It is important that all the resolutions of the United Nations are properly complied with.
On my right hon. Friend's first point, it cannot seriously be denied that, unless we had been prepared to back up by force the diplomatic efforts that were made, we would never have secured the agreement that Kofi Annan obtained in Baghdad. Britain was not simply involved in building up forces in the Gulf, although we did play our part in that, and I am glad we did. It was the right thing to do. We have been intensely involved in the diplomatic effort as well.
It was Britain which put together the Security Council guidance for Kofi Annan's mission to Baghdad. It was Britain which put together the resolution on doubling the oil for food resolution. It is Britain which is now taking the lead in putting the new Security Council resolution together. Not merely generally, but particularly in our case, force and diplomacy have gone together.
Mr. Tom King (Bridgwater):
In welcoming the obvious improvement in the situation over the past week, and recognising the vital importance of ensuring that the agreement is adhered to, may I ask whether the Prime Minister accepts that there will be wide support for ensuring that resolution 687 is complied with? Does he further agree that, against that background, the inspection teams must carry on their work and complete it, as the resolution requires, thus enabling sanctions to be lifted and a normal situation restored?
Has the Prime Minister seen the worrying stories that the work of the inspection teams may be being undermined by the locations of the places that they intend to visit being disclosed by members of the inspection teams to the Iraqi Administration, thus enabling that Administration to carry on their deceit? Will the Prime Minister agree that it must be in the interests of everybody, including the people of Iraq, that the inspection work is successfully carried out, and that any such attempts to break the security of the inspection teams are prevented?
The Prime Minister:
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his support over the past few days. He is absolutely
Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield):
Is the Prime Minister aware that the main immediate beneficiaries of what has happened are many tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, who might have been killed by British and American forces? They have been spared a death which could not in any way have been attributed to their behaviour.
The main contribution has been made by Kofi Annan, the Secretary-General of the United Nations. Not only has he worked for peace, but he has to some extent rescued the United Nations from the attempt by the United States to dominate it; there never was and never will be a majority of the Security Council in favour of the use of force. Does my right hon. Friend accept that many people, including me, were very disappointed that a Labour Government would have been prepared to go in and use force against the majority view of the Security Council and of world opinion?
The Prime Minister:
Of course, my right hon. Friend is entirely entitled to his point of view. He enjoys a freedom here that, of course, he would not enjoy in Iraq. I honestly believe that Kofi Annan would not accept the version of events that my right hon. Friend has given. If my right hon. Friend were to talk to him, as I have done, he would find that Kofi Annan accepted that it was essential that there was firm resolve and a willingness to use force in order to get his diplomatic efforts to succeed.
I can tell my right hon. Friend that one of the hardest things to do, because of the nature of the Iraqi regime, was to persuade Saddam Hussein that we were serious about using force. It is my view, for what it is worth, that it was only when Saddam Hussein became aware that we were serious about using force that he began to make any form of concessions.
Should Saddam Hussein breach the agreement that he has now reached, I think that international opinion would be firmly with us in saying that we have to make sure that he adheres to the agreements that he has made.
The possibility of innocent people suffering in Iraq weighed very heavily on us, but responsibility for that lies with the regime itself. It is not merely preventing proper humanitarian aid from getting to its people; it actually moves people to sites which it thinks may be hit, to try to deter attacks from abroad--to use them, in other words, as human shields. I think that it would be better to direct that fire at the Iraqi regime.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle):
Exactly what procedures will be followed to determine whether Saddam Hussein is breaking the agreement, particularly when the inspection teams are accompanied by diplomats from a number of countries? Will it be the responsibility of the commissioner, when appointed, to report back
The Prime Minister:
I agree. That is a perfectly fair point to make. It is important to realise that the commissioner will report back, through the Secretary-General, to the Security Council. In respect of the sites other than the eight presidential sites, the regime is precisely the same. The regime that already exists has been reaffirmed in its entirety. In respect of the eight presidential sites, the changes have been laid down by the Secretary-General himself, and Saddam Hussein is not negotiating on the terms of those inspections.
We have not found in the past a problem deciding whether the agreements that Saddam Hussein has made on weapons inspections have been broken. There was never a disagreement that he was in breach of the weapons inspection regimes. The disagreement has been whether the response should be one of force. However, I believe that, in the procedures that are laid down, we shall be able to see clearly whether a breach has occurred; if it has, the consequences that I mentioned will follow.
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North):
Given that the critics were as wrong in the past few weeks as they were seven years ago about the liberation of Kuwait, would not an apology be appropriate from those people, be they in the House or outside, who accused Britain and America of warmongering? As my right hon. Friend said, the only reason we had success in the diplomatic field--we are very pleased about that--was the threat of force.
I note what my right hon. Friend said about medical supplies and the responsibility belonging to Saddam Hussein--sanctions must continue for the reasons that the Prime Minister stated--but is there any way in which urgent medical supplies could go to hospitals in Iraq so long as UN officials and international agencies are convinced that they will be used for children and innocent civilians, and not for the criminal elite who have used medical supplies for themselves?
The Prime Minister:
We are looking at how we can ensure that the urgent medical supplies get through better to the Iraqi people and to Iraqi hospitals. Under the oil for food and medicine regime, far more food and humanitarian aid could have gone through to the Iraqi people. We are looking at ways to bypass the Iraqi regime and ensure that more is done in that regard.
Of course I agree with my hon. Friend's first point. It is also important to realise--I have certainly felt it very deeply indeed throughout this matter--that no one but a fool or a villain would want to send our forces into battle. The reason we have been prepared to contemplate it, and are prepared to contemplate it if the agreed regime is breached, is precisely because we believe that, if we do not do so, the threat to world security, peace and stability will be all the greater. The alternative is to do nothing, which is probably the riskiest option of all.
Sir Peter Emery (East Devon):
Obviously, the Prime Minister deserves congratulations on the way in which the nation has been able to stand by and ensure that a solution came about. Would he mind pointing out to those who make a great play about the damage that bombing might have done to the civilian population of Iraq that that damage and death would be nothing compared with the destruction that could be brought about by Saddam Hussein if he used those weapons for his purpose on the surrounding nations? That would be much greater than any other damage.
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