House of Commons Hansard Debates for 6 Feb 1998 (pt 12)

12.16 pm

Mr. John McWilliam (Blaydon): I congratulate the hon. Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr. Burnett) on introducing the Bill which, although it may not have been apparent from my interventions, I whole-heartedly support--indeed, I do not think that it goes far enough. Problems have arisen in the past because of the lack of such legislation.

There are some problems with the Bill. I shall be happy to give way to the hon. Gentleman if he wants to tell me why he included subsection (2) of clause 1. I can understand that, if he can guarantee that in every house built the building standards will conform to the existing energy-efficiency legislation and will not fail within the specified period of 12 years under the latent defects legislation, especially if the builder goes bust in the intervening period, which happens all too often.

Mr. Burnett: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for inviting me to intervene. We do not want duplication in this matter. The clause may go in Committee, as the Council of Mortgage Lenders does not seem very concerned about that provision. Nevertheless, it is in the Bill as drafted, it is possible that it will remain there, and it is there to avoid duplication and additional cost, where possible.

Mr. McWilliam: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that explanation and for the assurance that the provision is liable to disappear at Committee stage--

Mr. Burnett: Possibly.

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Mr. McWilliam: Possibly liable to disappear at Committee stage. It may have caused some greedy builders to rub their hands. Without it, the Bill would be improved.

The Bill seems to concentrate on information. I am not certain that the energy conservation measure that has already been enacted and which should apply to every new building is covered by the latent defects legislation of, I believe, 1982. I served on the Committee that considered the measure, and I noticed the matter at that time, but I did not raise it because I was too busy with another Committee. It might be fruitful for the hon. Gentleman to consider that issue. It may be possible to incorporate the measure under the long title of the Bill, which is:

"To make further provision for energy efficiency".

Making provision for good energy efficiency measures that fail as a result of a latent defect clearly fits that description, so I think that the hon. Gentleman could get away with it. If not, our noble Friends in another place often ignore long titles when amending legislation, which sometimes causes panic in this place.

Since May, the new Government have established a good record in introducing energy conservation measures in the face of time and legislative pressures. The Government set themselves a very demanding challenge at Kyoto, and this and other measures will help us to meet it.

Another problem with the Bill concerns its application in Scotland. I know from experience that house purchasing in Scotland is a whole different ball game. When I moved from Scotland, I flogged my house within three weeks and invested the proceeds in the money market until I found exactly the house that I wanted in England. I was not at the end of anyone's queue so I could not be gazumped. It was extremely convenient.

When one bids for a house in Scotland, the mortgage lender must guarantee that he will lend against that property. The snag is that someone else who is borrowing from the same mortgage lender often applies for exactly the same thing. How many surveys would be done in that circumstance, as the mortgage lender probably operates with one survey company? The poor customer would not know, and would have to pay through the nose every time. Some Government proposals that seek to address that problem might also help the hon. Gentleman by improving his energy conservation measures.

My hon. Friend the Member for St. Helens, South (Mr. Bermingham) referred to bent building surveyors--there are not many, but they are not unknown. There used to be many such surveyors in my part of the world, but they are less of a problem now. It is difficult when someone thinks that he has paid good money for a good job and the building control department says, "That's done; that's fixed", only to find out five years later that everything is not all right. The house may need a new roof or the owner may discover that the damp-proof course has not been inserted or that the builder used dirty ties, thus causing damp.

The hon. Member for Torridge and West Devon was wise not to include public sector housing in the legislation because that would necessitate a money resolution. If he had done so, the Bill would have had to address the problem that many local authorities inherited 20-odd years ago when the Scottish Office Development Department

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and the Department of the Environment produced figures regarding the installation characteristics of poured concrete, which subsequently turned out to be totally inaccurate when the concrete dried out. The insulation disappeared, damp developed and people complained to the local authorities. They claimed that the problem was caused by condensation, and they were quite right--but the condensation was caused by a lack of wall thermal efficiency. Measures such as strapping walls and putting up plaster board are expensive and intrusive.

It would be nice if the Government could allocate more money to local authorities in the future to allow them to address that problem retrospectively. An imaginative pilot scheme conducted in Gateshead has produced extremely good results in flats. The buildings used to be horrible, but now they are attractive, warm homes with safe playing areas in a good environment and are close to schools, nurseries and shops. Such rehabilitation measures could be taken as well, and I look forward to the Government introducing some.

I shall not detain the House any longer. I have a rotten cold and I do not have a lot of voice left. I wish the hon. Gentleman and his Bill, minus clause 1(2), a safe passage.

12.24 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Angela Eagle): In common with other Members, I congratulate the hon. Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr. Burnett) on his good fortune in the ballot and on his choice of subject for a Bill.

The Bill would improve energy efficiency, to which the Government are also committed--that is always a good start. The Bill would also make a valuable contribution to achieving better energy efficiency. I intend to speak about the importance of measures to improve energy efficiency, such as those proposed by the hon. Gentleman; the action that the Government are taking; and the role that we believe that the Bill might play.

Our manifesto made it clear that we are committed to a policy designed to promote the more efficient use of energy. We are keen to carry that policy forward. Energy efficiency is in tune with sustainable development, on which we launched a consultation exercise--as I mentioned in interventions--earlier this week. We believe that it can offer major benefits to households and businesses, and, at the same time, help us to protect the environment by reducing the threat of climate change.

The benefits to householders and businesses are immense. Improved energy efficiency reduces fuel bills and maintenance costs, improves comfort and creates jobs. Energy efficiency therefore makes sense for all of us. It saves money that could be better used to improve our homes and develop businesses. There is plenty of scope for doing that as we look around our domestic, commercial and industrial sectors.

Recent estimates suggest that total emissions could potentially be reduced by about 25 per cent. through the use of cost-effective energy-efficiency measures. As many hon. Members have noted, there is plenty of room to improve energy efficiency in the home, an issue tackled in the Bill. As many hon. Members have also noted, the energy efficiency of the average home is low. The fuel bill for an average three-bedroom semi could be reduced from about £750 per annum to about £400 by the

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installation of a standard package of energy-efficient measures, including wall and loft insulation, draughtproofing, hot water tank insulation, double glazing and a new heating system with controls.

In addition, energy-efficient houses tend to be more comfortable--that may seem an obvious point, but it is true. Maintenance costs are also reduced through reduced incidence of mould and condensation. Householders would therefore benefit from the improved quality of their houses and they might feel more comfortable. As some hon. Members have pointed out, they might also benefit from improved health.

Increased energy efficiency would also bring advantages to the economy, because it would create jobs in the energy efficiency installation and manufacturing industries. It would also create marketing opportunities for new or more efficient technologies.

Cost-effectiveness, comfort and economic advantages are not the sole reasons for our desire to promote energy efficiency. Just as important, energy efficiency brings benefits to the environment by contributing to the United Kingdom's efforts to meet international emissions targets and our domestic aims.

The Government have a strong commitment to safeguarding the environment and, in particular, to combating global warming. We have said that we will place the environment at the heart of policy making. Indeed, our policies aim to combine environmental sustainability with economic and social progress. We believe that the three go together. As my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, East (Mr. Heppell) said, we also believe that it is important that we have the support of the people if we are to create a consensus in favour of making such progress and changing individual behaviour, which is crucial to success.

Hon. Members will have noted the strong line taken by the Prime Minister when he led the United Kingdom delegation to the Earth summit II in the run-up to the Kyoto conference. Hon. Members will also note that the Deputy Prime Minister took a strong line at that conference when he delivered a signed, legally binding agreement to reduce harmful emissions.

We plan to build on that success internationally, in Europe and at home. The previous Administration offered 10 per cent. as part of the European Union target. We will consider whether we should offer more. We will maintain our domestic aim of reducing emissions to 20 per cent. below 1990 levels by 2010.