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Mr. Cook: I am not sure whether many of my right hon. Friend's questions were addressed to me and not to
others who prompted such observations. I agree with him particularly on two points. First, it is important that everybody in politics in Britain and in the international community shows unity on this question. What encourages Saddam Hussein is a sign of division in the international community. We know that he began the original obstruction because of the appearance of division among the permanent five in October. It is important that we convince him that there is a unity of resolve and that he must recognise it.
Secondly, I entirely agree with my right hon. Friend about the importance of the United Nations both to Labour party policy and to the international community. If Saddam Hussein is allowed to ignore and flout Security Council resolutions, there will not be much point in the Security Council meeting on future occasions to pass resolutions.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East):
If we do not know where these dreadful weapons of mass destruction are located, will the Minister explain how on earth we shall go about destroying them when the British and American Governments go all the way? Will he also indicate whether the Government have sought the opinions of the Government of Iran and their people, who suffered hugely in the Iran-Iraq war, when the Iraqi dictatorship, at the same time as it was killing Kurds, appeared to have the full and undivided support of the United States of America and indeed, much of the western world?
Mr. Cook:
On that count, the hon. Gentleman needs to answer for the Government who were in charge of Britain at the time. Many Opposition Members at that time were indeed critical of the tolerance that was shown to Saddam Hussein. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that--possibly--if a more robust attitude had been shown to Saddam Hussein in the 1980s, we might not now be having this exchange in the late 1990s. Having recognised the threat, and having also--perhaps--understood better than the hon. Gentleman's colleagues in government could have done in the 1980s the extent to which Saddam Hussein is willing to be aggressive and the way in which he took over a neighbouring country, it is important that we do not leave him with such a capability again.
Mr. Tony Benn (Chesterfield):
Is the Foreign Secretary aware that, while there is absolute unanimity in the House on the hatred of Saddam Hussein's regime and the dangers that might follow from it, Britain and America are not the international community? Nor, indeed, does he speak for the Security Council, which has not authorised military action by two countries only, contrary to the charter. He does not speak for the European Union, of which Britain is President, and in which there are different views. Jean-Pierre Chevenement, a member of the French Foreign Affairs Commission, recently came out very strongly against intervention. My right hon. Friend does not speak for the Gulf war coalition, because the Arab League is opposed to it.
Before British troops and service men are exposed to what would be another war with Iraq, will my right hon. Friend give a clear undertaking that there will be not just a series of statements but a debate in the House, in which the Government's objectives, of which he says today he cannot tell us, can be fully explored, and in which the
House can determine whether it wishes to follow this course of action, which will inevitably cause many more casualties among not only American and British troops but Iraqi civilians?
Mr. Cook:
The question of a debate in the House is a matter for the usual authorities. I, personally, would have no problem in defending our position and putting forward the case that I have made to the House today at greater length. I did not say that I could not tell the House what our objectives are. They are quite clear: to ensure compliance with Security Council resolutions. What I cannot tell the House, and what the House would not reasonably expect me to tell it, are our precise targeting plans in the event of any military action.
My right hon. Friend is, of course, right that the United States and the United Kingdom are not the international community. That is precisely why the Government, whom he supports, are taking the lead in the Security Council to secure a further resolution, to demonstrate that Saddam Hussein is taking on the international community. The greater the unity that we can achieve in the international community, the better the chance we have of winning.
Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood):
If the most powerful democracies in the world cannot curb the aggressive potential of Saddam Hussein, will it not be a grave precedent for the international community and for the world order generally? Is it not the case that there are other countries with despotic Governments who are equally capable of flouting United Nations regimes on the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction? Would they not gain encouragement were Saddam Hussein to remain in power and to increase his arsenal?
Therefore, is it not crucial that the Foreign Secretary secure that wider consensus, beyond the permanent five of the Security Council that he spoke about? Is he, in any sense, encouraged by the attitude that he discovered in his French counterpart, given that the French are leading members of Western European Union, a collective security organisation, and given that the French, with ourselves, are the best able among the European countries to project the military power necessary to underpin the diplomatic efforts?
Mr. Cook:
I obviously agree with the hon. Gentleman. As I have said in response to several questions, what is at stake is not just the issue of Iraq and Saddam Hussein, but the authority of the Security Council and, therefore, its ability to intervene on any future occasion when we are faced with similar threats.
I have learnt from my conversations with my French opposite number and my Russian opposite number that they both deeply share our concern at the way in which Saddam Hussein is flouting the resolutions. That feeling of impatience is especially felt by the Russians, who feel that he has broken an agreement that they understood that they had achieved in November 1997.
Mr. Ernie Ross (Dundee, West):
I support everything that my right hon. Friend has said in the House today, as I did the answer to the private notice question last week by the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Central (Mr. Lloyd).
I welcome our intention to return to the Security Council to obtain a further resolution. The middle east countries that may find it difficult, in isolation, to say publicly what we know they are saying privately, may find themselves able, in a debate on a new Security Council resolution, to say exactly where they stand.
I welcome our intention to support the report of Kofi Annan, the Secretary-General, which said that oil for aid should be increased from $2 billion to approximately $3.2 billion. I also welcome the fact that my right hon. Friend said that we shall support that move when the Secretary-General brings the matter to the Security Council.
Mr. Cook:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his support for the position that we have taken. I emphasise that expanding the oil-for-food programme is in no way a concession or a carrot to Saddam Hussein. Indeed, he hates the oil-for-food programme because it takes away his alibi about the hardship and the suffering of the Iraqi people. Interestingly, it is the Security Council, not Saddam Hussein, that at present is seeking a way to bring help to the people of Iraq.
Sir David Madel (South-West Bedfordshire):
Can the Foreign Secretary confirm that, if the new British resolution before the Security Council does not get the support of the Security Council, existing Security Council resolutions allow the use of force as a last resort?
Mr. Cook:
There are plenty of resolutions, and those resolutions clearly provide a basis for the authority of the Security Council, and a basis for authority to enforce the Security Council resolution. However, I would say to the hon. Gentleman that the purpose of our efforts--which are intensive--in New York at present, is to ensure that we find as tough as possible a text that is acceptable to members of the Security Council. We believe that, irrespective of the legal niceties, it is important that we carry a resolution that demonstrates the condemnation of the international community.
Mr. Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead):
Has not the threat of force been counter-productive to the real aim, which is to get rid of Saddam Hussein? Did my right hon. Friend see that, in a few days, one in 20 of the Iraqi population signed up to support the regime because of the threats from the west? Would it not be a misuse of force to slaughter a "Dad's army" to strengthen a dictator?
Mr. Cook:
I fear that my hon. Friend is mistaken if he imagines that the chemical and biological capabilities of Saddam Hussein are equivalent to a Dad's army. I agree with him that it would be entirely desirable if we got rid of Saddam Hussein, and if I had the opportunity, I would certainly vote for that outcome. The tragedy is that Saddam Hussein makes sure that the Iraqi people do not get the chance of that vote, and do not get the chance of choosing a leader for themselves.
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