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- Sitting suspended, pursuant to Standing Order No. 10 (Wednesday sittings), till half-past Two o'clock.
Oral Answers to Questions
INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Caribbean Banana Producers
1. Mr. Ernie Ross: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what representations she has received concerning the interests of Caribbean banana producers; and if she will make a statement. [8356]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development (Mr. George Foulkes): We have had a very large number of representations from many quarters. The banana industry is of crucial importance to the Windward Islands and also to Belize and Jamaica. We shall continue strongly to support favourable access to the European market by Caribbean banana producers.
Mr. Ross: Can my hon. Friend assure the House that when the World Trade Organisation panel's finding is made public we in Europe will be able to provide a transitional period for the Caribbean countries affected by the decision--whatever it is--so as to ensure that an adjustment programme is introduced to protect livelihoods, especially for small family producers? I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree that we do not want those families to be devastated by the WTO panel's finding and to discover that pressure is put on them to move towards an alternative crop, such as those involved in the drugs industry.
Mr. Foulkes: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As he knows, the European Commission has appealed against the WTO panel's finding that the European Union regime breaches the WTO rules. We cannot anticipate the outcome of that appeal, but I assure my hon. Friend that we shall press for as long a transitional period as possible to help our colleagues in the Commonwealth Caribbean. He is right that we are encouraging them to diversify into other products. If they diversify into drugs, it would be bad for us and bad for the United States. That message was given to President Clinton when he visited Barbados, and I hope that he will take note of it.
Mr. Wells: Will the Minister report to the House on how the banana regime is working? Can he tell us where the income from B licences, which the West Indian banana producers should enjoy, is actually going? Is it not extraordinary that the Government of St. Lucia are having to subsidise banana producers in their country when a huge amount of that money ought to be going to them?
Mr. Foulkes: The hon. Gentleman is very knowledgeable about the Caribbean, and especially about banana production. He will appreciate that I cannot give him a report off the top of my head, but I can assure him that I will write to him, deal with the points that he has raised and give him as full a report as possible.
Mr. Kaufman: Is my hon. Friend aware that I am receiving letters from death row prisoners in Jamaica
saying that the Jamaican Government are actively considering resuming hanging? Will my hon. Friend make it clear to the Jamaican Government--
Madam Speaker: Order. Does this concern banana producers?
Madam Speaker: Will the right hon. Member let me know how banana producers come into it?
Mr. Kaufman: I am extremely grateful for your guidance and correction, Madam Speaker. I was about to come to the banana regime. Will my hon. Friend make it clear to the Jamaican Government, and to the Governments of other Caribbean countries with similar policies, that our support for the banana regime and other forms of economic aid must be dependent on rectification of human rights abuses in those countries?
Mr. Foulkes: My right hon. Friend has raised this matter on a number of occasions, including a very important Adjournment debate. I am sure that the whole House would not want our vital assistance to the Windward Islands to be in any way conditional. I think that my right hon. Friend would agree, however, that the fact that wages and working conditions for banana workers on the Caribbean smallholdings are much better than those on the central American plantations run by US companies is a very good social reason for supporting the Caribbean.
Mr. Goodlad: Bearing in mind the uncertainties mentioned by the hon. Member for Dundee, West (Mr. Ross) in relation to the World Trade Organisation, and also the uncertainties inherent in renegotiation of the Lome convention, will the Minister reassure the House that our own aid budgets to our Commonwealth friends in the Caribbean will not be cut?
Mr. Foulkes: I can certainly give the right hon. Gentleman that assurance.
Mr. Godman: I am pleased to hear that Caribbean banana producers have the support of European Commissioners. When the Minister next meets Ministers from Germany and Italy in particular, will he impress on them the moral obligation that we have as a nation towards the people of the Caribbean? Quite apart from all else, including morality, Caribbean bananas are much better quality than the things coming in from central America.
Mr. Foulkes: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I have already described working conditions on Caribbean smallholdings, which are much better than those on central American plantations. My hon. Friend is also absolutely right about taste. I urge not only him but Opposition Members to eat more Caribbean bananas. The House can thereby set an example for the nation.
World Development Report
2. Mr. Luff: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will meet
representatives of the World bank to discuss their latest world development report; and if she will make a statement. [8357]
The Secretary of State for International Development (Clare Short): I have discussed the report, which is entitled "The State in a Changing World", with the president of the World bank. The key argument of the report--which I greatly welcome--is that we must strengthen public sector institutions so that adequate services can be provided to poor people. The report focuses on the best way to develop the state's capacity to produce adequate services and on how the private sector can assist in reaching that goal. I believe that publication of the report marks a significant shift from the old belief--from a previous era--in omnipotent states, and also from more recent mistakes based on market idolatry, to the realisation that states and markets alike make good servants but bad masters.
Mr. Luff: Does the right hon. Lady welcome the report's emphasis on the need to cut corruption in the developing world to increase state capability? Does she agree that some of the best ways of doing that include reducing subsidies and regulations, promoting large-scale privatisations and attacking state monopolies?
Clare Short: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman: we must always try to reduce corruption--as the Conservative party has learnt to its cost. The report suggests that we need a virtuous and efficient state. If we are to have efficient markets, we need a state that is an efficient regulator. It is a mistake to think that everything can be driven by markets. We require a lean, efficient state which regulates market forces well so that we can provide quality services for people and macro-economic conditions which draw in investment, especially into the poorest countries.
UK-US Aid Relations
3. Mr. Olner: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if she will meet the US ambassador to discuss bilateral UK-US aid relations. [8358]
Clare Short: I have met the United States ambassador twice, when we discussed a wide range of issues including the need for a strengthened United Nations and for greater commitment to poverty eradication.
Mr. Olner: I thank the Minister for her response. Perhaps one fruitful line for us to pursue with the United States is to reach a joint agreement ensuring, through our assistance to the former Yugoslavia, that the Dayton agreement is fully realised, particularly now that it is soon to expire. Will she also talk with the United States about the role of the World bank and perhaps about postponing its loan to Croatia?
Clare Short: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He will be unsurprised to hear that we did indeed talk about the situation in Bosnia. There is a renewed determination in the United States Government and the British Government to work in every way possible to achieve full implementation of Dayton and greater progress on such matters as refugee return. The United States is
reinvigorated in its commitment, and so are the United Kingdom Government. We have considered very sceptically the proposals for the World bank's loan to Croatia, in view of the conditions in that country.
Mr. Fabricant: Is the right hon. Lady aware that the United States is the largest giver of aid to the people of Cuba, although not to the Cuban Government? Will she use her best influences to determine whether the United Kingdom and the United States can work together in promoting freedom in Cuba while simultaneously not propping up its communist regime?
Clare Short: I absolutely share the hon. Gentleman's aim of a stable Cuba with more freedom and economic prosperity for all its people. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the United States Government differ with most European Governments on the best way to achieve that aim. It would be good to reach more agreement and make further progress towards the end which, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says, we should all share.
Mr. Sheerman: When my right hon. Friend discusses those issues with the United States at the highest level, will she impress on her colleagues the importance of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, the value of our having rejoined it, and how good it would be for development throughout the world if the United States took the same decision?
Clare Short: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for those remarks. Some time ago, President Clinton wrote to the director general of UNESCO, Mr. Mayor, to say that he hoped that the United States would rejoin. I am proud that we in this country have rejoined. One of the world's major objectives in poverty eradication is to get every child in the world--especially girls, who tend not to be in education in the poorest countries--into primary education by 2015. Much of the thinking and infrastructure to achieve that aim must come from UNESCO, which is a precious institution. It has increased its efficiency and we must strengthen it still further by being on the inside, rather than on the outside carping.
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