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9.6 pm
Mr. Tony Marlow (Northampton, North): The Prime Minister has said that he has three themes for the election: first, Europe, renegotiation and how we can regain control over our affairs; secondly, devolution and how we can ensure that the United Kingdom remains united when the Opposition would split us asunder; and, thirdly, taxation, which is the subject of today's debate. The Prime Minister and the Conservative party agree that taxation levels would be higher under a Labour Government than under a Conservative Government. I shall explain why.
My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Budgen) described new Labour as the Conservative party in drag, trying to be more conservative than the Conservatives. The reality is that, first, if it is a Conservative party in drag, it is an inexperienced Conservative party in drag and it will make a hell of a lot of mistakes. Secondly, there are many unreconstituted, unreformed old socialists in the Labour party whose taxation motto is: tax until the pips squeak.
The Conservative Government have reluctantly increased taxes from time to time, but in our hearts we want low levels of taxation because we know that is how the economy works best. The money belongs to the people, not to Parliament or to the Government. According to Opposition psychology, the money belongs to the Government, who will let the people have some every so often. The instinct of a Labour Government--even under new Labour--is for higher taxation levels.
We all want to care for our elderly and infirm and to provide good standards of education. There is no argument about that and there is little argument about how it will be achieved. Under a Labour Government, there will be pressure to increase public expenditure. That pressure will be applied by Labour constituents, the paymasters and clients of the Labour party and by the trade unions which have influence with the Labour party. Whatever the intentions of the new Labour leaders, that pressure will force them to do more. We have a duty to ensure that public money is spent efficiently. That means that there have to be reforms, as there have been in the past 17 years of government. We have had privatisations. Many industries, institutions and establishments that used to be a large financial burden on the taxpayer have now been reformed, and we get more product for less payment by the taxpayer. No Labour Government could or would reform the institutions that still require to be reformed.
We heard from the Labour Front Bench a great new initiative on education: to give back all the powers to local authorities, and to do everything that the National Union of Teachers wants. More and better education is not achieved by feeding the appetites of the producer groups. It is not achieved by looking after the clients, bosses and managers of the Labour party. If there is a Labour Government, one will get less for more money. Therefore, there will be more taxation and probably even more expenditure, which means more borrowing. The sad fact is that whatever is said at the moment by Opposition Front Benchers, whatever their good intentions, they will not be able to deliver.
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The Labour party has a sauce in tabling its amendment. Labour wants higher investment. If there are high levels of taxation and expenditure and high levels of Government borrowing, there will be high interest rates. Will that encourage people to invest?
The hon. Member for Newham, North-East (Mr. Timms) had some concocted figures. His sounded like a research assistant-type speech, as though he had looked it up in a book and that it had been decided this way, that he had this table and that table. He said that Britain is 18th out of 18 in terms of investment. Does anybody really believe from the results, from the strength of the British economy at the moment, that we are 18th out of 18 in terms of investment?
The vast majority of European investment outside other European countries is in the United Kingdom. The vast majority of German investment is in the United Kingdom. The vast majority of Japanese investment in Europe is in the United Kingdom. The vast majority of United States investment in Europe is in the United Kingdom.
Labour talks about investment, but it has to be effective investment. Perhaps other countries are spending more, but they are not getting the results. We are. We have the strongest economy in Europe. We have the highest growth rates in Europe. We have the best increases in productivity in Europe. Labour criticises investment, but we are getting the results. What is Labour criticising?
Then Labour Members have the gall, the audacity, the cheek, to complain about the Conservative Government's employment record, yet they are the people who would embrace the social chapter. They are the people who want the 48-hour week. They are on their knees for the 48-hour week. They are the people who talk about a minimum wage. They would hamstring our economy. What will that do to employment?
Mr. Marlow:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his support.
Labour Members talk about the scandal of youth and long-term unemployment. The way to overcome that is through good education, good skills and a strong economy. For every three who went into higher education when we came into Government there are now eight. Our economy is the strongest in Europe. We are creating and generating jobs that would be destroyed and thrown away if we were to lose the election and be replaced by a Labour Government.
Then we heard the complaint about the increasing tax burden. The Labour party is complaining about the Conservative Government increasing the tax burden. Is that not the pot calling the kettle black? The Labour party lives for increasing the tax burden. What does it have in mind? It has a brand new tax worked out, or half worked out, possibly worked out--hardly thought about at all. I understand that it will not be introduced because it will be illegal. If it is not illegal, at least it will be challenged in court. It will take two years before the Labour party can discover whether it is legal, so it will not be able to raise the money.
The Labour party will not have the money to carry out all its promises, so it will have to raise the tax in other ways. Supposing Labour were allowed to introduce the
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Was it not the main objective of the Labour party to ensure that flotations did not succeed? Did it not do all that it could to depress share prices when utilities were sold and floated to the public? If undertakings were sold too cheaply given the uncertainty that existed at the time, which meant that prices had to be realistic to encourage people to buy, we know the guilty party. It was the Labour party which chose to put the frighteners on people who wished to buy the shares. If money has been lost to the Exchequer--money that could have been gained by the Exchequer--we know where the fault lies.
The Labour party now has the gall to talk about a windfall tax. From whom will it get the money? Will it get it from shareholders--perhaps? What else will happen? What will happen to the price of the output of the services that are provided by utilities? What will happen to those who are employed in these undertakings? Their jobs will be put on the line again. Who will the Labour party help by means of an illegal tax that it will not be allowed to introduce? Let us know more about what a Labour Government will do. Let the Labour party not tell us that we are the party that is increasing taxation when it has an illicit, bogus, inefficient and ridiculous tax up its sleeve.
Ms Dawn Primarolo (Bristol, South):
Given the speech by the hon. Member for Northampton, North (Mr. Marlow) I am not sure whether he is the secret weapon for the Government in the next general election campaign or whether he is the Labour party's secret weapon in bringing down the Government. The hon. Gentleman is fervently anti-Europe and spends his time criticising the Government. He called for the Prime Minister's resignation in the House. He has the nerve to talk about inconsistency yet he sings the praises of the very Government who he is doing so much good work to assist in bringing down.
Even when the hon. Gentleman was struggling to sing the Government's praises he had to admit that they had increased taxes. Apparently in their heart of hearts they did not want to do that, but they did. That will make interesting reading in the hon. Gentleman's election
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The Government say that they want to reduce taxes. They campaigned on that policy and then increased taxes, both indirect taxes and direct, as the wicked lies in the Red Book demonstrate and as the report of the Select Committee on the Treasury confirmed, the Committee having considered the details of the 1996 Budget. This is the world turned upside down. Perhaps we might now return to what is in the Bill and the propositions advanced by the Government.
I understand that it is in order to congratulate the Financial Secretary--it will be the only time that I do so this evening--on being appointed a Privy Councillor in the new year's honours. I am happy that he is now a right hon. Gentleman, and I hope that that means that he will tell us the truth in his reply to the debate.
The Chief Secretary to the Treasury was rather coy at the beginning of the debate when my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, Central (Mr. Darling) asked him whether he will be a member of the Finance Bill Committee. You, Mr. Deputy Speaker, would have expected, as we did, that he would confirm that he will take responsibility for the Finance Bill and will be on the Committee that will enable the Government's tax-raising proposals to be enacted. Unfortunately, he could not tell us whether he will be on the Committee: he told us to wait and see. We are not sure whether he will not be on the Committee because he is defending his marginal seat in Bristol, or because he does not want to take responsibility for the Bill.
The argument that the Chief Secretary tried to advance presented a selective picture of the Government's so-called achievements. He referred to the measures in the Bill, especially the significant action to protect the tax base. He said that the Government would not tolerate tax abuse. We are pleased to hear that: hon. Members on both sides of the House unanimously agree with that and do not support tax abuse. He said that the Government will now make available extra resources to deal with tax abuse. That is a bit rich, given that they cut them in the first place.
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