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Mr. Robert G. Hughes: Quietly? You?
Mr. Michael: That fact should be acknowledged by Conservative Members who seem to wish to cackle from a sedentary position.
The Home Secretary accused the Opposition, in his comments in the Queen's Speech debate, of engaging in an entirely synthetic fuss about knives. I hope that the change of attitude to the Bill means that he has acknowledged that the debate is far from synthetic, and that the fuss is real and should be ended by the passage of the Bill into law. It is a real debate. It is real to Frances Lawrence, to the families involved in Horrett Campbell's crazed machete attack and to the hundreds of people who are threatened, stabbed and killed every year by people brandishing knives that have been bought freely and easily. Hon. members have only to stroll up to Regent street to gaze at an array of knives in a shop window display. Those knives are not simple tools of legitimate trade. There is no attempt to disguise their purpose; they are not dealt with in back streets, but sit bold as brass in the windows of shops.
Mr. Nick Hawkins (Blackpool, South):
I am pleased to join in the welcome that has been given by Members on both sides of the House to the Bill of the hon. Member for Glasgow, Provan (Mr. Wray). I agree with the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael), that it is important not to damage cross-party consensus on the Bill. I am aware that there is more joy in heaven over one who repenteth, but some of the entirely specious comments of the hon. Gentleman must receive an answer. He has an astonishingly short memory about his party's policy.
As recently as May 1994, his Front-Bench colleague in the other place, Lord McIntosh of Haringey, derided stronger search and stop powers for the police to deal with people carrying knives, which are contained in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, as going:
Mr. Michael:
Rather than accept the selective quotations of Conservative central, the hon. Gentleman should read the Hansards for the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Bill debates, where he will find that nothing in that Bill dealt with violence, knives or weapons until Labour Members moved amendments in Committee. If the hon. Gentleman studies the record he will find that we have every reason to be proud. He uses a minor and selective quotation, which is the one element that Conservative central office has circulated to him and his hon. Friends.
Mr. Hawkins:
The hon. Gentleman does not deny that the quote is accurate. He will recall that I served on the Committee, as he did. Time after time, throughout 180 hours of debate in Committee, the Government put forward tougher measures that were opposed by Opposition Members. Time after time, the Government have shown their consistent support for tougher law and order measures throughout my time in the House and throughout 17 years of Conservative Government. Only in the past couple of years has the penny dropped with the Opposition parties that the public want tougher law and order measures. Suddenly we have the astonishing conversion. Suddenly Labour Members claim virtue. As always, the Labour party is following its focus groups and what it belatedly realises the public wants, which is what we have been proposing.
Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby):
We seem to be quoting Hansard. Neither my hon. Friend nor I were in the House in the late 1970s and early 1980s, but does he remember the debate about the SUS laws, to which the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) referred, and how the gentleman from Liberty said that it was appalling that the police should be allowed to stop and search people and to deny them liberty? Is that not what the Labour party said time and again throughout the 1970s and the early 1980s?
Mr. Hawkins:
My hon. Friend is right.
Mr. Richard Spring (Bury St. Edmunds):
We do not wish to introduce a discordant element in what has been
13 Dec 1996 : Column 534
Mr. Hawkins:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We must have no more of such specious humbug in an attempt to rewrite history, particularly from the Opposition Front-Bench team.
I should like to return to the important part of this debate. For years before coming into the House I spoke and campaigned for stronger measures to be taken, particularly in relation to knives. During my years in practice at the Bar, both prosecuting and defending, through the late 1970s and early to mid 1980s, there was a continuing increase, which caused massive problems for the police, in the use of knives and other weapons of violence. I welcome the fact that Bill of the hon. Member for Provan now has cross party support so that at long last a much tougher stance will be taken and the police will have greater powers, particularly to clamp down on such knives.
I particularly welcome the fact that restrictions will be introduced on the advertising and marketing of knives. The hon. Member for Provan may be pleased to know that some of the people involved in the sale of periodicals have responded actively to his Bill. In my post this very morning, I received a letter, which many other hon. Members may also find in their post today, from the group chief executive of WH Smith, Mr. Bill Cockburn. He says that
The way in which these horrendous weapons have been marketed has offended all hon. Members. The hon. Member for Provan rightly referred in detail to the way in which some of the marketing is done, which must
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The Government have already moved considerably in the direction of placing controls on martial arts weapons. I particularly welcome the steps that were taken to ban weapons under the Criminal Justice Act 1988. Knuckle-dusters, sword sticks, weapons sometimes known as hand claws, belt-buckle knives, push daggers and hollow kubotans and other repellent weapons were banned.
Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South-East):
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Provan (Mr. Wray) who has put many hours and much effort into the production of the Bill. We should also give him credit for the fact that he has had to negotiate with Ministers, which is never easy. The Government have a battery of advisers but my hon. Friend can rely only on himself and his colleagues. I acknowledge, however, that the Minister has tried to co-operate with my hon. Friend.
My attention was drawn to this issue after some incidents in Coventry. There were a number of incidents--some of which led to deaths--involving not only knives, but guns. We have, of course, already had the debate on guns. I am trying to illustrate the concerns of the people of Coventry about the lack of control over the sale of knives. After a number of incidents resulting in loss of life, there was a demonstration through the streets by people wanting something to be done about knives. There was also a problem in some nightclubs where people apparently were able to get in to the clubs with weapons, resulting in tragedies.
As a result, the police and the local newspaper organised a voluntary campaign to encourage shopkeepers to check on whether an individual buying a knife was below 17. If he or she was, the shopkeeper would not sell him or her a knife. For the purposes of this debate, we are talking about knives as lethal weapons. More than12 months ago, I wrote to the Home Secretary regarding the concerns expressed to me on the matter. At that time, he said that not a lot could be done.
"well beyond the powers which the police ought to have and need to have in a democratic and free society."--[Official Report, House of Lords, 24 May 1994; Vol. 555, c. 611.]
The Opposition Front-Bench team has made an astonishing conversion as it has realised that its support for single issue lobby groups of the civil liberties movement has become so unpopular.
"there are 77 Buying and Selling titles, such as Loot and Exchange and Mart, that could be affected by provisions making the aggressive marketing of knives an offence".
He also refers to recent measures in relation to firearms. He points out that 7.5 million customers visit WH Smith's stores every week and that it wishes to comply with all new laws, including this Bill. He stresses that the companies WH Smith and WH Smith News
"have written to the publishers and distributors or all such titles asking them what changes they are likely to make in terms of their editorial for guns and/or knives and what their policy is regarding the acceptance of advertising and the advertising content for guns that are illegal and for combat knives. In addition, the publishers of imported publications have been asked whether these titles will be tailored for the UK market or remain identical to the native edition.
I am sure that the hon. Member for Provan and all other hon. Members who are interested in this important new Bill will be pleased to find that, even before it becomes law, people are starting to respond to it. That is precisely what will by welcomed by hon. Members on both sides of the House and it shows the importance of the Bill that it is already influencing not only public attitudes but the behaviour of major commercial concerns in the market.
In the light of the replies that we receive, we will be able to judge whether any further action needs to be taken. We are anxious to ensure that consumers can continue to exercise as much choice as possible, however, we are particular concerned that, following the new legislation, everyone operates within both the spirit and the letter of the law."
in particular in Coventry; to convince the people of Coventry that the retailers and organisations taking part in this project have a genuine desire to improve community safety."
They outlined the reasons why the campaign was started, and said:
"In recent years there has been a marked increase in the number of offences where or knives or other bladed weapons have been used. Latest figures show that these types of weapons are involved in about one third of all murders in the United Kingdom.
The code demonstrates the concerns in Coventry and the initiative shown by local people. The code itself states:
It is a fact that a small section of the community feels it necessary to carry knives as a form of protection. Unfortunately, when alcohol or drugs become part of the equation, terrifying scenarios develop.
After the stabbing to death of two teenagers outside a Coventry nightclub, police in the city and the Evening Telegraph spearheaded a campaign to get off the streets as many of these lethal weapons as possible.
The amnesty resulted in almost 500 daggers, machetes, swords, flick knives, lock knives, butterfly knives, sheath knives and razors being handed in.
This local campaign was followed by a national amnesty after the death in London of head teacher Philip Lawrence, when more than 40,000 knives were surrendered.
Senior police officers stress that every knife taken out of circulation represents a potential tragedy averted.
And the public expects to see firm action in the courts against offenders who blatantly disregard repeated appeals to hand over their lethal weapons.
Knife crime adds to the public's general fear of falling victim to crime, and there is now a groundswell of opinion in Coventry and elsewhere that positive action must be taken to stop people carrying knives, and thereby prevent the disastrous consequences which can result."
"No person may buy a knife or other bladed object without good reason; identification must be produced by anyone wishing to buy a knife or other bladed object; if a person under 17 years of age wants to buy a knife, he or she must be accompanied by a responsible adult; if a bladed instrument is to be used for sporting, religious or professional activities, a letter of authorisation or support from an organisation or employer should be produced."
This as an illustration of why the Government have been forced to act. The people of Coventry wanted knives to be banned and I welcome the initiative of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Provan which the public in Coventry and across the country will welcome. I thought that he had reached a consensus among members of all political parties on the Bill, but some Conservative Members have started to attack the integrity of my colleagues.
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