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Mr. Alex Carlile (Montgomery): I echo the congratulations to the hon. Member for Chislehurst (Sir R. Sims).
I welcome the appointment of Sir Ronald Waterhouse as chairman of the judicial inquiry. His wide experience, and his close knowledge of north Wales, will prove to be great advantages. Will the Secretary of State confirm that, in carrying out the inquiry, Sir Ronald will be free to make recommendations about the way in which, and the resources with which, the police investigate allegations of child abuse, particularly in smaller police forces such as the North Wales police, in which, generally speaking, there are limited resources for special inquiries?
Can the Secretary of State also confirm that it will be possible for Sir Ronald to look at the nature of the institutions in which often vulnerable children are placed, as demonstrated by the evidence that emerges in the courts when prosecutions are started many years later? Can he also confirm that it will be possible for witnesses at the Waterhouse inquiry, many of whom are now adults leading ordinary lives, many of them married with children, to have anonymity in terms of public identification?
Mr. Hague:
The hon. and learned Gentleman is right about Sir Ronald Waterhouse. His origins in north Wales, his knowledge of that area and his experience in the criminal division and the family division of the High Court make him ideally suited to this task, and I am delighted that he has agreed to take it on. He can indeed look into procedures and behaviour, if that seems appropriate, in the course of his inquiry.
The hon. and learned Gentleman's question about privacy for witnesses raises the point to which I referred in answer to the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies): that there may be instances of the inquiry wishing to arrange matters to protect the privacy of witnesses, and to do so, as far as it can, without
compromising the publicity that should rightly be given to these proceedings and to the public interest in them. The hon. and learned Gentleman can be satisfied on that point.
Mr. Rod Richards (Clwyd, North-West):
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his statement, and I particularly congratulate the Government on their decision to hold a judicial inquiry into child abuse in north Wales. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern for those people who may have been or were abused many years ago, and who are now adults and may have families of their own? To have their pasts raked over, whether in public or in private, would be an extremely painful experience. What protection and what measures are in place for such people, who do not want to revisit the horror of their past?
Mr. Hague:
I thank my hon. Friend for his welcome. Of course, he took a close interest in these matters during his time in government. The question he raises is one of the factors that we have had to bear in mind and weigh against the wider public interest and the need for a public inquiry. As I said in answer to the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Carlile), I hope that, where necessary, the inquiry will be able to find a way to protect privacy, while also satisfying the public interest and ensuring that all information that should be made public is made public.
Mr. Martyn Jones (Clwyd, South-West):
While welcoming the inquiry almost wholeheartedly, I have to say that my colleagues in Clwyd have been calling for one for a long time. We have been aware of the kind of abuse that is happening. One of my constituents came to my surgery and described the kind of things that went on. They are horrendous--there is no other way of describing them--and I am delighted that we are now to look at this matter. Although these matters are historical--
Madam Speaker:
Order. I understand that this is a sensitive matter, but the hon. Gentleman must put his question, as he has not yet done so.
Mr. Jones:
Will the Secretary of State ensure that the inquiry takes place with all speed concomitant with getting the truth? Although the cases are historical, the people involved are still suffering hurt. Does he acknowledge that Clwyd county council was not at fault, in that it tried to get a judicial inquiry for the benefit of the people affected? Although the Jillings report may have been flawed, at least it tried to get the facts into the open. I am glad that the judicial inquiry will now do that.
Mr. Hague:
The hon. Gentleman has called for an inquiry before, and we have discussed it before. Had other investigations been carried out to general public satisfaction--in that their reports were published and were seen to deal with the matter--and had the Adrianne Jones report revealed that procedures in recent years had been satisfactory, there would have been a weaker case for a public inquiry.
I recognise what the hon. Gentleman says about speed, and how that must be balanced with the need to look into the matters properly. In consultation with Sir Ronald
Waterhouse, I intend to set a target date for the completion of the inquiry, and I do not want to do so in an arbitrary way today. In the meantime, we will proceed to implement the recommendations of the Adrianne Jones report. The report of the inquiry will be in addition to that report, rather than instead of it.
Madam Speaker:
Order. I must safeguard the remainder of today's business, and the House will understand if I now ask for brisk questions from Members and brisk answers from the Minister.
Sir Wyn Roberts (Conwy):
May I assure my right hon. Friend that he was absolutely right to decide to hold this inquiry, which was inevitable following the failure of the local authority to publish the Jillings report because of possible defamation? The judicial inquiry is necessary as a result of the Adrianne Jones report, which looked into the situation following the implementation of the Children Act in 1991 and found it inadequate. Does he agree that Adrianne Jones deserves our thanks for her work and her recommendations, including her recommendation to strengthen the inspectorate at the Welsh Office?
Mr. Hague:
My right hon. Friend is right to say that we should be grateful to Adrianne Jones for her efficient and speedy work. He highlights one of her recommendations, and I will be acting upon it quickly.
Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich):
Is the Secretary of State aware that there is no more foul crime than the abuse of children, and that those who commit it continue to do so because they rely on secrecy? Is he aware of my question on the Order Paper today that asks for a public inquiry into the situation in Cheshire? For more than two years, I have been asking the Home Office to make public information about convicted paedophiles. Is he aware that it takes 10 months for anyone to get information before they employ someone in a children's home? Is it not likely that these people are still operating within the child care system?
Mr. Hague:
The hon. Lady's fears are part of the reason for the measures that I have announced, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and I share her concerns. Investigations are continuing and prosecutions pending in Cheshire, and it is important that they are not prejudiced by Government action. That is why the inquiry that I have announced is concerned with Clwyd and Gwynedd.
Mr. Peter Thurnham (Bolton, North-East):
Does the Secretary of State agree that it is unforgivable for children to be taken into care, and then not be properly cared for? Will the Government ensure that there are no more cover-ups, not just in Wales but throughout the United Kingdom? If the problem is as widespread as has been thought, is there a target date for Sir William Utting to report?
Mr. Hague:
My hon. Friend is right. There should be no cover-up of any description. We all want action to be
Dr. John Marek (Wrexham):
The Secretary of State did the right thing this afternoon, and I believe that the people of north Wales will thank him for it. I have three short questions. First, will he assure us that the Jillings report will be made available to the inquiry? Secondly, will he assure us that, should any evidence or any matters before the inquiry concern matters relating to Cheshire, if they cannot be considered by this inquiry they will at least be passed on to the relevant authorities in Cheshire? Thirdly, he says that the inquiry will be unable to consider aspects of decisions by the CPS whether to prosecute individual people; can he assure the House that that exclusion will be drawn quite tightly?
Mr. Hague:
Yes, the Jillings report will be made available to the inquiry. Information relating to other parts of the United Kingdom will, of course, be passed on to the relevant authorities. The hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the need to interpret relatively tightly the exclusion that we have placed in the terms of reference. The rationale for that is the importance of finality and fairness to potential defendants and victims and witnesses, but it does not mean that the generality of the work of the Crown Prosecution Service is beyond the scope of the inquiry.
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