House of Commons Hansard Debates for 9 Jun 1993

Edinburgh Royal Infirmary

10. Dr. Strang : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland when he last met the chairman of the Lothian health board to discuss the plan for a major new teaching hospital to replace the Edinburgh royal infirmary.

Mr. Stewart : Officials of the Scottish Office Home and Health Department regularly discuss the provision of hospital services with Lothian health board and keep Ministers fully informed. Policy on the provision of acute hospitals in Edinburgh is primarily a matter for the board, subject to public consultation and the approval of my right hon. Friend.

Dr. Strang : But since it is two years since the Lothian health board decided to replace the Royal with a major new teaching hospital in the south of Edinburgh ; since a site has already been acquired, why are the Government still not giving the go-ahead for investment? Is the Minister aware that we need not only a new hospital but a major new medical school? Will we get an early and positive decision on this or will the Government sabotage Edinburgh's reputation as an international centre of excellence for medical teaching and research?

Mr. Stewart : I do not agree with the hon. Member's analysis of the present situation. Perhaps I can put it in context for him. The board consulted widely on the

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delivery of acute services in Edinburgh, and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh, Pentlands (Mr. Rifkind), then Secretary of State, endorsed the outline conclusions in autumn 1989, including the teaching hospital in the south-east of Edinburgh and the substantial rebuilding of Edinburgh Royal, as the hon. Gentleman has said. The board is currently and sensibly reviewing that strategy against the background, for example, of the dramatic changes being experienced in the delivery of patient care. I cannot anticipate the outcome of the board's review. However, I can tell the hon. Member that I have no reason to believe that a new teaching hospital will not figure in any new proposals that will be put to Ministers.

Mr. Eric Clarke : I am very surprised at the Minister's answer because, in consultation with my colleagues and hon. Members representing the Lothian region, the hospital board told us that this hospital is a keystone because there will be only three major hospitals left--St. John's in Livingston, the Western general and this one that is not even built yet. The alternative is to close down about seven other hospitals, with the exception of the sick children's. If we know that, the Minister should know that. I would like to know when he will give the go-ahead for this particular hospital.

Mr. Stewart : Perhaps the hon. Gentleman did not hear exactly what I said, which was that I cannot anticipate the outcome of the review, but I have no reason to believe that a new teaching hospital will not figure in the new proposals. The revised strategy will require ministerial consent. That will be given only if we are satisfied that the proposed changes will lead to a better standard of care and will, therefore, be in the interests of patients. There will, of course, be an opportunity for public consultation when the proposals are known. The hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends are welcome to have full meetings with my right hon. Friend on the details.

Regional Assistance

11. Mrs. Ewing : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent discussions he has held with representatives of (a) Grampian regional council and (b) the European Commission on the details of potential allocation of objective 5(b) status to west Grampian.

Sir Hector Monro : The European Commission's proposals for the future operation of the structural funds are currently under discussion at official level in the Council of Ministers. Until negotiations on criteria for the selection of objective 5(b) areas are further advanced it would be premature to discuss the possible allocation of 5(b) status to west Grampian.

Mrs. Ewing : Does the Under-Secretary not understand that there is a cross-party, Grampian-wide campaign to ensure that structural funds are allocated to the rural areas, which are very fragile, given their dependency on the fishing and farming industries? Why, therefore, is the Under-Secretary not prepared to meet an all-party delegation of Members of Parliament, representatives of the regional council and representatives of the district councils? I accept that meetings do not always lead to agreement, but does the Under-Secretary not understand

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that there is a desperate need for a meeting to take place very quickly, because decisions could be taken by the Commission as early as July?

Sir Hector Monro : I most certainly appreciate just how serious the situation is relative to west Moray, the north Moray coast and the fishing areas. I appreciate the strength of the case put forward by Grampian regional council and the local enterprise company. I can assure the hon. Lady that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland is prepared to meet a delegation, which has already been suggested by the hon. Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hughes) and my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Robertson). I am sure that my right hon. Friend will enjoy having the company of the hon. Lady as well.

Mr. Malcolm Bruce : I am grateful to the Minister for saying that he will meet a delegation. I had understood, however, that he told the hon. Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Hughes) that he did not think that a meeting was timely. If that view has changed, I welcome it. Will the Minister take on board the fact that people who live outside Grampian often feel that it is a rich area? Although part of it is rich, the west Grampian part of it is very deprived. Income levels there are 75 per cent. of the European average and 71 per cent. of the United Kingdom average. Serious consideration, therefore, needs to be given to the allocation of 5(b) status to west Grampian.

Sir Hector Monro : Yes, I appreciate that the percentage of unemployment in west Moray, in the Forres area, is particularly high. My right hon. Friend is prepared to meet an all-party delegation and will look forward to doing so.

Mr. Robert Hughes : May we have the matter absolutely clear? I received a letter this morning from the Secretary of State in which he said that it was premature to have a meeting and that it might have to be delayed until later in the year. Is the Under-Secretary telling us that the Secretary of State has reconsidered and that a meeting is now on offer? If so, can that very small delegation include Members of Parliament from the region?

Sir Hector Monro : Yes. My right hon. Friend will do that.

Mr. Tom Clarke : Will the Minister explain, on behalf of the Secretary of State, why the people of Grampian, or anybody else, can have faith in the Government's influence upon European affairs? Has the Secretary of State for Scotland told the Under-Secretary how the Home Secretary achieved five extra seats in Europe, the Secretary of State for Wales one extra seat for Wales and the Secretary of State for Scotland none whatsoever for Scotland? In view of that, what advice does the Secretary of State for Scotland intend to give to the sycophantic Scottish Tory press so that it can present that as a success instead of a spectacular failure?

Sir Hector Monro : That was very much a last-minute gasp by the hon. Gentleman, and he knows that it is far removed from anything to do with objective 1 or objective 5(b).

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Infertility Treatment

12. Mr. Watson : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to standardise the availability of infertility treatments through the NHS in health boards in Scotland.

Mr. Stewart : All health boards in Scotland provide infertility services, the extent and level of which are-- [Interruption.]

Madam Speaker : Order. I should be much obliged if the House would settle down.

Mr. Stewart rose -- [Interruption.]

Madam Speaker : Order. The House must come to order.

Mr. Stewart : All health boards in Scotland provide infertility services, the extent and level of which are for boards to decide in the light of local needs and circumstances.

Mr. Watson : The Minister clearly is not aware that level 3 infertility treatment is available free of charge in Glasgow but costs £400 a time in Dundee and more than £1,000 a time in Edinburgh and Aberdeen--the only places in Scotland where such treatment is available on the national health service. A few minutes ago, the hon. Gentleman had the gall to say that Labour Members were guilty of spreading disinformation. That comes rich from a man whose Government have reneged on a pre-election commitment given by the Scottish Minister then responsible for health that such services would be provided centrally. If the Under- Secretary is not prepared to honour that pledge he will not only be accused of disinformation but will be guilty of colluding in what will be seen as a cheap and cruel vote-catching gimmick on thousands of childless couples in Scotland. Will he now give that commitment?

Mr. Stewart : Of course I am fully aware of the detailed provision of infertility services in Scotland--at level 1, which represent treatment offered by a GP or general gynaecologist, at level 2, which represent secondary or specialist care available at a district general hospital and are widely available on the NHS in Scotland and, as the hon. Gentleman pointed out, at level 3, with free in vitro fertilisation service at the Royal infirmary, Glasgow. Health boards must decide whether to provide or purchase those services from the resources allocated to them. That situation is not unique to Scotland ; it applies throughout the United Kingdom.

Mr. Kynoch : Does my hon. Friend agree that in vitro fertilisation is a very complex and costly procedure and that the success rate of the four centres to which he referred is far from consistent? Will he join in welcoming Grampian health board's move to reinvestigate the funding of IVF treatment in its area so that my constituents can be treated at a more favourable cost within the Grampian health board area?

Mr. Stewart : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is right to give that example of a health board deciding to investigate what is sensible in the light of local needs and circumstances in its area.

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Dr. Godman : Is not there a need for not only the regulation of treatments throughout Scotland but for the supervision of all treatments throughout health boards? The recent scandal of the Inverclyde royal hospital showed that stark fact. When will the committee of inquiry publish or present to the Minister its report on matters at the Inverclyde royal hospital, and is the Minister satisfied with the remedial action that was taken by the hospital to diminish and give comfort to the women who were caught up in that needless and dreadful scandal?

Mr. Stewart : The short answer to the hon. Gentleman's second question is yes, and I hope that he will be reassured by the meetings that he has been offered by my right hon. and learned Friend the Minister of State to discuss matters in detail. The answer to his first question is that there will be a full investigation under the inquiry conducted by Dr. McGoogan. The report will be made to the Secretary of State and the Minister of State and to the health boards. It will be made public. The hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, and the report will be completed as soon as is possible and practicable.

Skye Bridge

14. Mr. Charles Kennedy : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the progress of work in respect of the bridge to Skye.

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Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : The second caisson for the south pier of the main bridge is due to be placed on the sea bed this week. As with the first caisson, this marks a very important milestone in the construction of the bridge. The contractor is confident that the bridge will be completed on programme by mid-1995.

Mr. Kennedy : I welcome the fact that the Prime Minister and the former Chancellor recognise the importance of the Skye bridge and are here for this question. As the Minister is aware of the sense of blatant injustice felt in Skye and Lochalsh about the principle of a privately toll -funded bridge and high tolls being levied on locals for anything up to a generation, the related problems of Caledonian MacBrayne and the roll on/roll off service between Mallaig and Ardvasar, will he use the opportunity of the summer recess to accept the invitation that I have twice extended to him to meet the local people and hear what is being said about the massive economic and social implications that the structure, as presently constituted, will have?

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I will meet the hon. Gentleman any time, but he must remember that the bridge will be of enormous benefit not only to his constituents but to the people of the Western Isles. As for the toll, he must remember that when traffic increases, this could reduce the toll or shorten the toll period. That is a factor which he and his constituents would be wise to bear in mind.

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