House of Commons Hansard Debates for 26 Oct 1992

Hansard

House of Commons

Monday 26 October 1992

The House met at half-past Two o'clock

PRAYERS

[Madam Speaker-- in the Chair ]

Oral Answers to Questions

TRANSPORT

Rural Transport

1. Mr. Pike : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps he has taken to monitor the service provision level (a) in rural areas and (b) on Sundays and at off-peak times.

The Minister for Public Transport (Mr. Roger Freeman) : I apologise for the absence of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport. He is chairing the Transport Council in Luxembourg today. The Transport Research Laboratory has published several reports on the changing pattern of bus services, including one recently on rural bus services.

Mr. Pike : Does the Minister accept that, as we forecast when the Transport Act 1985 went through, because local authorities do not have enough money for subsidised services there is a rapidly declining off-peak service on some days and in rural areas? The same will happen on the railways because of privatisation unless the Government recognise the social need for a public transport service.

Mr. Freeman : The hon. Gentleman asks about railway privatisation. I can confirm that central funding will be applied to the subsidisation of socially necessary rail services. Through the franchising authority, the state will provide sufficient funding to ensure the running of socially necessary services.

Mr. Donald Anderson : As the Minister well knows, the deterioration in off-peak services was predicted, was bound to happen, and has happened. Has the Minister attempted to monitor the mergers in the bus industry and is he anxious about increasing monopolisation in the industry?

Mr. Freeman : It is the responsibility of the Director General of Fair Trading to monitor the bus industry and, where appropriate, action is taken by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. It is not the responsibility of the Department of Transport to take action, but the Department monitors the performance of the industry. The recent Transport Research Laboratory report about which I spoke refers to service patterns in four rural areas and concludes that in recent years there has been no significant change in the provision of services.

Ms. Walley : I am stunned at the lack of concern among Conservative Members about the effects of bus

Column 758

deregulation on rural transport. In view of what the Minister has said, why is he not prepared to recommend that subsidies for standard spending assessments should be ring fenced? We are worried about the way in which bus journeys have decreased by as much as 18 per cent. since bus deregulation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Mr. Pike) has said, no matter what assurances the Minister gives about central funding for British Rail privatisation, there will not be the same concern to ring fence rural services following rail privatisation.

Mr. Freeman : The Government have no proposals to ring fence specific provision through the revenue support grant and standard spending assessments, either for subsidising socially necessary bus services or for concessionary bus fares. It is for local authorities to determine their own priorities. I accept that those choices are difficult, but local authorities must make them.

Manchester Airport (Rail Link)

2. Mr. Bennett : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement about a railway link southwards from Manchester airport.

The Minister for Transport in London (Mr. Steve Norris) : This is a matter for British Rail, in consultation with the local authorities and the airport company. I understand that a working party has been set up to consider the case for a southern link.

Mr. Bennett : The Minister will be aware that people in Greater Manchester are delighted about the progress that has been made to establish the railway station at the airport and at the fact that from next May there will be a first-class rail service from the north of England to the airport. Does he agree that it is tragic that for the want of approximately a 100-yard curve, the airport will not be linked to the whole of the midlands? Is it not rather odd that although the Government can produce large sums for transport in London, they cannot find sufficient to set up 100 yards of track to enable the airport to be linked both north and south?

Mr. Norris : I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing attention to the fact that the northern link is due to be commissioned in May 1993 and that it will provide direct and excellent access from Manchester to the airport. He asked about further possible links and I will draw his remarks to the attention of British Rail, which will have ultimate responsibility for that matter.

Settle-Carlisle Line

4. Mr. Booth : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on the future of the Settle-Carlisle route.

The Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. Kenneth Carlisle) : This is a matter for British Rail in the immediate future. In the longer term, the line, like all others, will be franchised and subsidy for socially necessary services will continue.

Mr. Booth : Beyond saying that the Carlisle to Settle railway will extend to Finchley, will the Minister kindly assure the House--moving from rural to urban

Column 759

regeneration--that in future urban regeneration schemes, infrastructure and particularly rail infrastructure will be thought about and put in place at the formative stages?

Mr. Carlisle : I pay tribute to the work that my hon. Friend has done in this sector. As he knows, we have substantial interest and investment in the Sheffield and Manchester schemes and we recognise that those schemes can do a great deal for urban communities. As to the Settle to Carlisle route, since British Rail was refused consent for this to close in 1989 there has been great success with the scheme, and substantial investment has been made. I am glad to tell the House that work on the famous Ribblehead viaduct has been completed, stations have been improved and platforms extended. This will provide a corridor for substantial investment in this beautiful part of our country.

Mr. Waller : Is my hon. Friend aware of the considerable amount of work done by the supporters of the line to promote it, and that this involved surveys of local businesses? Will he take into account the fact that this line is predominantly for social and recreational use, so that any subsidy purely for travelling to work and other similar purposes will not go a long way to subsidising the line?

Mr. Carlisle : I realise how much loved the line is, and that is one reason why it survived attacks in previous years. I believe that it has a future not only for social and recreational reasons but because of the service that it can give to the general community. It is supported by a whole range of people. It is interesting to note that the standing conference consists not only of the local authority but of the tourist board, the Rural Development Commission, voluntary groups and the West Yorkshire passenger transport authority. The recent report, "Settle to Carlisle : Opportunities for Development", offers the real way forward for this famous line.

Mr. Skinner : Is the Minister aware that there could be a hidden agenda here? When I see the hon. Member for Finchley (Mr. Booth) tabling questions about the Settle to Carlisle railway and the Minister giving a positive reply, I begin to put two or three things together. Is it conceivable in this hidden agenda that the hon. Member for Finchley is thinking about getting a job there, running the show on the Settle to Carlisle line, and vacating his seat at Finchley so that the queen across the water--Lady Thatcher--can inherit it? If so, I have a good suggestion : the line can be renamed the Chiltern Hundreds.

Mr. Carlisle : The hon. Gentleman would see not only a hidden agenda but a plot under every support of the Ribblehead viaduct.

London Underground

5. Mr. Carrington : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport when he next expects to meet the chairman of London Underground to discuss improvements to the underground train service.

Mr. Norris : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I meet the chairman of London Underground regularly to discuss a variety of issues, including improvements to the underground train service.

Column 760

Mr. Carrington : My hon. Friend will be aware that the new Westminster and Chelsea hospital opens in April next year. The hospital is badly served by London Underground and if Professor Tomlinson's proposals for London's health services are implemented, communications with the hospital will be even more vital. In the planning for the Chelsea-Hackney route, will my hon. Friend consider the proposals to put a station near that hospital to serve the patients? Will he also consider the possibility of speeding up construction of the route, which will be even more important in the future than it has been in the past?

Mr. Norris : I know of my hon. Friend's considerable concern about rail services in his constituency. The Government have safeguarded the route of the Chelsea-Hackney line and thus demonstrated their confidence in the viability of the project. I am sure that my hon. Friend will understand when I tell him that I cannot give any assurances on when construction might commence.

Mr. Raynsford : Does the Minister recognise that the underground service provides no stations in the London borough of Greenwich? That is why there is particular concern about progress on the Jubilee line. When will the Minister be able to make an announcement, and will that announcement be positive, that the Government will proceed to build the Jubilee line extension?

Mr. Norris : I wish that I could give the hon. Gentleman a full and complete answer to that question. He will have to satisfy himself with the response that he knows that I am obliged to make, which is that the matter is not one on which I can deliberate at this stage. He is right about the benefits that the line will bring to his constituency and to others that it will serve.

Mr. Bowis : May I endorse the request made by my hon. Friend the Member for Fulham (Mr. Carrington)? Will my hon. Friend bear it in mind that among those seeking to reach the excellent new hospital facility will be my constituents from south of the river? It is important that the Chelsea-Hackney line comes in soon and continues south of the river into Wandsworth.

Mr. Norris : I shall consider what my hon. Friend has said about possible options for the route of the Chelsea-Hackney line at the southern end. It is right that several options are available which have not yet been fully explored. I shall be happy to take his suggestions on board.

Mr. Cohen : Has the Minister seen today the survey produced by the Association of London Authorities, which shows that fares in London are four times higher than in Paris, six times higher than in Rome and Madrid and eight times higher than in Athens? At the same time, the underground system has not had investment to match fare rises. Does the Minister agree that in those circumstances there is no case for further fare rises? Will he come down from his ivory tower and admit that the price is not right?

Mr. Norris : Someone has to pay for the operation of the rail service--and that means either the taxpayer or the user. I am convinced that it is right that users should pay enough to cover at least the majority of the operating costs of London Underground. I am sure that the hon.

Column 761

Gentleman knows that there still has to be a subsidy of the operating costs. If users pay an appropriate amount of the costs, the taxpayer's contribution flows straight through into new investment. That must be in our interests. That seems to be something that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues have overlooked.

Mr. John Marshall : Would my hon. Friend care to recollect his journey on the Northern line with me? Does he agree that existing services on that line are Victorian and need to be brought up to date? Does he agree also that it would be quite illogical to appoint a Minister with responsibilities for transport in London and then to cut or cancel expenditure on the London Underground system?

Mr. Norris : I remember my journey on the underground with my hon. Friend with particular piquancy. It was an interesting and illustrative experience. In all seriousness, he knows that London Underground fully appreciates the extent of the need to modernise the Northern line service. He will know of the considerable programme of modernisation on the Central line, which is worth about £800 million. He will know also that London Underground currently proposes to follow on from that work to the Northern line.

Madam Speaker : I call Mr. Peter Snape-- [Interruption.] Mr. Tony Banks.

Mr. Tony Banks : I do not know who should be more offended, Madam Speaker.

I welcome the Minister to the Government Dispatch Box on the occasion of my latest and most enduring comeback. Will he confirm that thousands of jobs in construction and manufacturing industry outside London are waiting on a decision on the Jubilee line extension? It is appalling that the indecision and lack of an announcement from the Government should be leading to so much uncertainty. If the Minister cannot make an announcement today, will he tell the House whether he is personally in favour of the Jubilee line extension?

Mr. Norris : I welcome the hon. Gentleman to the Dispatch Box. As he suggested, he has made more come backs than Frank Sinatra. I hope that this one will prove enduring, as I am sure that our exchanges will be enjoyable.

I am fully aware of the extent to which all mega-projects can generate jobs. It is clear, however, that such schemes must be subject not only to the criterion of desirability but to that of affordability. That will be considered by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and his Cabinet colleagues when they consider the whole public expenditure round. There is no doubt in my mind that the Jubilee line is an excellent scheme, and I hope very much that it will proceed. The decision will, however, be made by others on the basis of overall affordability. I acknowledge that I must be as much subject to such pressures as any other Minister.

Rail Privatisation

6. Mr. Hawkins : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what response he has had to the White Paper "New Opportunities for the Railways".

Column 762

7. Mr. Harvey : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport if he will make a statement on the progress of the Government's plans to privatise British Rail.

Mr. Freeman : My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State received a number of responses following publication in July of the Government's proposals for privatisation of British Rail. We plan to introduce this autumn the main legislation, to enable our proposals to be implemented. On 12 October, we published a detailed consultation document on franchising. I look forward to the responses, especially those from firms interested in taking on franchises.

Mr. Hawkins : I again draw attention of my hon. Friend to a problem of which I know he is aware from our previous discussions. I refer to the withdrawal of the last remaining direct InterCity services to my constituency from London and Glasgow. I thank my hon. Friend for the attention that he has paid to that matter in the past, and ask him to take full account of the views of no fewer than 11,000 people who signed a petition asking British Rail to reinstate those through services. Will my hon. Friend comment on the scope for the introduction of through direct services from London and Glasgow to Blackpool as a result of the Government's plans for privatisation?

Mr. Freeman : Currently, decisions about rail services are for British Rail. Although it suspended the direct service to which my hon. Friend referred, a connecting service is available from London and Glasgow. As to the future, I envisage that when the new regime is in place after full parliamentary debate and discussion, private sector operators will want to run specific services, with the agreement of the regulator, on a train path. It may be that Blackpool-Euston will be such a service ; and if it can be run viably and a train path is available, I will welcome that.

Mr. Harvey : Will the Minister comment on the collapse of Charterail and on the end of the StageCoach service to Aberdeen--two pilot private operations--and say whether the Select Committee on Transport will have a chance to report before the privatisation Bill comes before the House?

Mr. Freeman : I regret the demise of Charterail, but that had more to do with the recession and the company's optimistic plans than the charging regime, which is currently not in place but is operated ad hoc by British Rail. I do not believe that we can fault British Rail for Charterail's demise. Under the present regime--not the new track-charging regime which will be in place on

privatisation--StageCoach reached agreement with British Rail. That company also was clearly too ambitious, as not enough tickets were sold. However, I am pleased that services will continue, and that StageCoach will sell tickets to London not only from Aberdeen and Edinburgh but from Glasgow. I repeat that it is the Government's intention to publish a Bill next month.

Mr. Adley : May I put it to my hon. Friend--quietly and, I hope, thoughtfully--that his proposals are novel, complex, controversial and untried? Would not the Government be better off listening to all the issues and debating them thoroughly before producing a Bill? My hon. Friend has referred to the franchising White Paper.

Column 763

As the document contains no information about charges, should not that fundamental issue be explored before we rush into introducing a Bill?

May I ask my hon. Friend again whether he agrees that it would be good for all concerned if publication of the Bill, which presumably cannot take place until the paving Bill has received Royal Assent, were delayed until the Select Committee has had a chance to examine the issues?

Mr. Freeman : My hon. Friend is right in saying that there should be thorough discussion of the Government's proposals. We are trying to meet the timetable, and it seems to us that the publication of a Bill will help the process. Detailed examination of the Bill will take up much of 1993 and the Select Committee hearings will provide a valuable forum for the Government and, indeed, others to comment on the proposals.

I draw a distinction between the publication of our proposals for the framework of introducing the private sector, and the implementation of those proposals. We have no plans to rush the process ; indeed, we expect both passenger franchises and the sale of freight to start operating for the first time in 1994.

Mrs. Dunwoody : Does the Minister agree that, on the whole, it is better to take evidence before making a decision than to take it after that decision has been made? Would not the Minister benefit from an opportunity for the Government to find out a bit about the subject, before they have to reverse their views too publicly?

Mr. Freeman : I am sure that the Select Committee's deliberations, which will go into great detail, will be very valuable to the Bill's Committee stages in both Houses. I do not accept that the principles of our privatisation proposals, which we have set out very clearly, cannot be debated in the House. The debate that will take place on Thursday will provide us with an ample opportunity to consider the broad principles. Of course we are prepared to listen to discussion of the details : that is why we published a franchise document a short time ago.

The Select Committee's conclusions will be extremely important, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I look forward to appearing before the Committee on Wednesday.

Mr. Dunn : In the interests of my constituents in north-west Kent, may I urge my hon. Friend to refuse to listen to those who counsel for delay? Does my hon. Friend agree that British Rail managers, or those who succeed them, are bound to welcome the privatisation plans because they will place full responsibility, control and accountability where they belong--with those who run the railway system?

Mr. Freeman : I am grateful for my hon. Friend's support. There is no doubt that our proposals have received a very positive reaction--not only from some 50 companies in the private sector which have expressed an interest in the principle of franchising the passenger rail services and the sale of freight service, but from British Rail management and staff. Our proposals are certainly gradualist, and they will be thought out, argued and presented in great detail. The process will not be rushed, and it will work.

Mr. Prescott : The House will note that the Minister has given the first indications of another U-turn in

Column 764

Government policy : no longer are we promised a full-blooded rail privatisation Bill--the Government are now talking of what is basically an enabling Bill.

Given that the Minister will have to rely on the advice of the regulator, will he tell us whether the regulator has been appointed, and whether he satisfies the condition specified in the Department of Transport's advertisement, which states :

"Knowledge of public transport not essential"?

Mr. Freeman : The appointment has not yet been made. The appointment of someone to fulfil the responsibilities of regulator cannot be made until the Houses of Parliament have approved this measure and it receives Royal Assent. In the interim, there is a job to be done in 1993 : to regulate the provisions of international access under the European Community directive of 1991. We are looking for a regulator with understanding and intelligence of regulation and of the operation of public services and the protection of consumer interests.

Heathrow Airport (Noise)

8. Mr. Jessel : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps he intends to take in 1993 to reduce the aircraft noise around Heathrow.

Mr. Norris : Heathrow will continue to benefit in 1993 from the replacement of older, noisier, chapter 2 aircraft with modern, quieter chapter 3 types.

Mr. Jessel : Although the Government have an excellent record on aircraft noise, including the decision to refuse planning permission for a fifth terminal at Heathrow in the 1980s, and the removal of the Heathrow to Gatwick helicopter link, is my hon. Friend aware that hundreds of thousands of people living around Heathrow, where there are 1,000 flights a day, find aircraft noise a curse and a pestilence which spoils their enjoyment of their homes? Apart from emergencies, should not night flights be banned altogether?

Mr. Norris : The whole House knows that my hon. Friend has been a doughty fighter on behalf of his constituents against noise pollution. I congratulate him on this latest effort. My hon. Friend knows that the night -flying restrictions are due for review and that we intend to introduce new ones in the winter season of 1993. That process will involve wide public consultation, during which I know that my hon. Friend's views and those of his constituents will be heard. As for any application that might be made to expand services at Heathrow, my hon. Friend will appreciate that no planning application has formally been made at this point. However, when it is made, the Secretary of State for the Environment and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport will have to consider all the issues involved in deciding whether to grant permission.

Ms. Hoey : Will the Minister apply his attention to a particularly nasty form of aircraft, the helicopter, which, as he knows, is being put to increasing use, particularly along the river? Can he tell us why his Department is being so secretive about ferreting around trying to find new heliport sites along the river? Can he tell us why he will not now make public the sites that his Department is looking

Column 765

at so that the people who live in those areas can make their views known? I am sure that he knows what they will want to say.

Mr. Norris : I know of no hit list of secret sites for helicopter sites on the Thames. However, I do not believe that the Battersea heliport is adequate. A major city such as London ought to have a heliport that is much closer to the financial centre. I should welcome the proposal for a heliport in such a position as it would enhance the economic life of our city. There has been a great deal of Nimbyism about previous proposals to find such a site, but I trust that when it is identified--I have not had one put to me yet--the hon. Lady will join me in supporting something that will do a great deal to enhance London's reputation as a financial centre.

Mr. Wilkinson : When my hon. Friend comes to review night movements at Heathrow, or any other proposal affecting air transport services to or from that airport, will he bear it in mind that it is the premier gateway to Europe, an invaluable source of foreign exchange and a vital source of employment for tens of thousands of local residents? Will he also remember that the noise footprints around the airport have been considerably reduced over the years because of the quieter aircraft that have come into service and that the really important aim is to get into service the high-speed surface transport link to Paddington? Can he help on that matter, too?

Mr. Norris : I acknowledge that my hon. Friend's sentiments about the importance of Heathrow are widely shared. When it comes to night-flying restrictions, the British Airports Authority has to balance the commercial needs of airlines against the environmental impact of those airlines' operations. It is perfectly proper that consideration of these matters should involve public consultation. My hon. Friend knows that the Heathrow express proposal is being taken forward by the BAA and British Rail. I look forward to there being some progress so that the link can be provided as soon as possible.

Mr. Snape : As Dan-Air has become the latest victim of the recession, does the Minister think that British Airways' replacement aircraft will lead to a reduction in aircraft noise and, indeed, a reduction in noise from the hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Jessel), who I notice is not with us now? [Hon. Members :-- "Yes, he is."] I am sorry ; he is skulking. Will the Minister confirm that Virgin and British Midland were offered the same deal as that accepted by British Airways, but preferred to wait for Dan-Air's collapse to pick up its routes and slots without having to save jobs or meet redundancy payments to its former employees?

Mr. Norris : The hon. Gentleman knows that the chapter 3 requirements on noise extend to new aircraft being manufactured, which will gradually lead to improvements in noise levels at Heathrow and elsewhere. He knows that the commercial criteria of the Dan-Air transaction are for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, who will consider all aspects of it in considering whether to take further action.

Column 766

Network SouthEast

9. Mr. Haselhurst : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what action he has taken to monitor the performance of Network SouthEast in its West Anglia division.

Mr. Freeman : I receive reports on British Rail's performance against its charter standards every four weeks and pursue any points of concern as necessary. I am pleased to say that for the year so far West Anglia has exceeded its charter targets.

Mr. Haselhurst : Is my hon. Friend aware that there is insufficient margin of spare rolling stock to cover when units have to be taken out of service for repair, which sometimes leads to drastic reductions in capacity on some services? Will he see whether improvements can be made in maintenance in the West Anglia division to ensure that sufficient rolling stock is always available?

Mr. Freeman : Yes, I give my hon. Friend that assurance. I shall certainly pursue his point with British Rail. With the franchising of British Rail services, we expect a vigorous leasing market for investment in new rolling stock to develop naturally, which will permit private sector franchises and those who provide and run rail freight services to place orders and, with the assistance of the City of London, to lease rolling stock in the same way as ships, vessels, trucks, taxis and buses are leased.

Tyneside Metro

10. Mr. Mullin : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport when he last discussed with the chairman of the Tyne and Wear public transport authority the extension of the Tyneside metro to Sunderland.

Mr. Kenneth Carlisle : I know that Tyne and Wear is considering the feasibility of extending the metro to Sunderland. It has not yet made any formal approach to me.

Mr. Mullin : As the closure of the pits will almost certainly mean the closure of the rail line between Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough because it is heavily dependent on coal, and as the Government urgently need to find some capital projects to get the economy off its knees, would not it make sense, from everybody's point of view, to proceed with the extension of the metro to Sunderland as soon as possible?

Mr. Carlisle : The hon. Gentleman's point is speculative, but every approach that is made by the local authority and operators of services will be carefully considered and assessed in competition with some attractive projects that are being proposed. It may be of some comfort, however, for the hon. Gentleman to know that we give substantial support to such projects. I am delighted, for example, that we are giving substantial support to the Manchester light railway and the South Yorkshire super tram, which are costing about £135 million and £240 million respectively.

Rail Services, Grimsby

11. Mr. Austin Mitchell : To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what proposals he has for improving direct rail services between Grimsby and London.

Column 767

Mr. Freeman : It is for British Rail to bring forward proposals for improving rail services, not for Ministers.

Mr. Mitchell : In the past the Minister has given the impression that he has no powers to stop British Rail closing the service. Now that the North Eastern Transport Users Consultative Committee has put him right on the law and has not only told him that he has the powers, but has asked him to use them to stop the closure of the service, and now that Steer Davis and Gleave, the management consultants employed by Grimsby, have shown that British Rail's financial case for closing the service is almost total rubbish, will the Minister use the powers he has and keep a service that is vital to Grimsby and Cleethorpes?

Mr. Freeman : No. I will not direct British Rail to withdraw its proposals. I do not believe that that is either legally and statutorily appropriate or in the best interest of British Rail's finances. I can give the hon. Gentleman the assurance that I will meet any potential private sector operator of a through service from Grimsby, through Lincoln and Newark into King's Cross, or any consortium including local authorities that wishes either to subsidise the service or to run it. The reopening of a direct service on that line may be appropriate, but it is for British Rail to deploy its present assets as efficiently as it considers possible.

ATTORNEY-GENERAL

Prosecutions

30. Mr. Dickens : To ask the Attorney-General what plans he has to review the guidelines on which a decision to prosecute is based.

The Attorney-General (Sir Nicholas Lyell) : The code for Crown prosecutors is kept under review by the Director of Public Prosecutions. The most recent edition, published in January this year, emphasised the interests of the victim, and gave guidance on racial motivation as an aggravating feature and on the approach to be adopted in cases of mentally disordered persons alleged to have committed offences.

Mr. Dickens : Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that many people believe that the Crown prosecution service should be more tightly reviewed? Many people whom one meets in victim support schemes have been victims of a crime, yet never see the people concerned come to court because the Crown prosecution service believes that there will be reasonable doubt for the magistrates or for the jury. On the other hand, other people have to come to court. The cases are adjourned and adjourned again, and they suffer months of sheer agony while they wait for their cases to be called. Sometimes no evidence is submitted to the bench in the end. Will my right hon. and learned Friend tell the House that he will review the system far more tightly, because there is a trial within a trial by the Crown prosecution service?

The Attorney-General : My hon. Friend is quite right in saying that the position of the victim is extremely important. The Director of Public Prosecutions has made it clear that she recognises that. That said, it is important that the power to prosecute should be exercised independently. There is a powerful system of review within

Column 768

the service right up to the Director and through the Director to me. I superintend her and I am answerable to the House.

Mr. Fraser : Will the Attorney-General confirm that when, just over a week ago, British Coal gave short notice of redundancy, a criminal offence was committed under section 105 of the Employment Protection Act 1975, and that that was a criminal offence which was counselled and procured by the President of the Board of Trade, as well as being an action that laid the Government open to prosecution by the European Commission for breach of the mass redundancies directive? What guidelines and advice did the Attorney-General give to his Cabinet colleagues about those blatant breaches of employment and European law, or was his opinion not asked for at all?

The Attorney-General : The hon. Gentleman is experienced enough to know that he will not get an answer to most of his question. However, it is right to say that the matter in principle is one for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment. To expand on the first part of my answser, the hon. Gentleman knows that legal advice given by Law Officers is never disclosed.

Mr. John Greenway : Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that more cases in which the Crown prosecution service has some doubt in its mind about whether there is a likely success of prosecution would come to court if the whole process of getting cases into court were speeded up?

The Attorney-General : Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. The working group on pre-trial issues, in which the Crown prosecution service has played a leading part, has produced some very constructive proposals to achieve the speeding up for which my hon. Friend rightly calls.

Next Section

Home Page