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Column 841
House of Commons
Wednesday 11 December 1991
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[ Mr. Speaker-- in the Chair]
SCOTLAND
NHS Trusts
1. Mrs. Fyfe : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he takes to enforce procedures laid down in national health service circular No. 1975 (GEN) 46.
The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Mr. Michael Forsyth) : I have received no complaints regarding health boards' compliance with this or any other circular.
Mrs. Fyfe : I am rather surprised to hear that, because Greater Glasgow health board is very dissatisfied with the lack of consultation over the closure of two wards in Ruchill hospital in my constituency. Will the Minister of State nevertheless assure me that if the move to day care will be to the detriment of those who were receiving in-patient care for endocrine and metabolic problems, he will take action? Will he reassure me about the future of those patients who, until now, have been in the rheumatology unit of Ruchill hospital?
Mr. Forsyth : I am a little puzzled by the hon. Lady's question. I do not see how Greater Glasgow health board can be dissatisfied with the consultation process when it is responsible for--
Mr. Forsyth : Health council--the hon. Lady has corrected her position. As part of its general consultation process, Greater Glasgow health board consulted in respect of its acute services strategy for Glasgow. It has also carried out secondary consultations in respect of particular services. If the hon. Lady has anxieties, she should address them to Greater Glasgow health board, which is responsible for delivering the service.
Mr. Canavan : Why have Scottish hospital waiting lists increased by more than 4 per cent. in the past year? Why is the worst record in Scotland that of the Forth Valley health board area--which includes the constituency of the Minister of State--where the increase has been more than 24 per cent? If he has no regard at all for the welfare of patients, does he have regard for his job security?
Mr. Forsyth : I am astonished that the hon. Gentleman, as a Member of Parliament in Central region within the Forth Valley health board area, does not know the answer to that question. He will know that the largest increase in waiting lists as published is in respect of the new service and facility that have been provided in Forth Valley. He will also be aware that Forth Valley has expanded the number of treatments provided and, as a result, is offering a better service for patients.
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Mr. Canavan : Why are the waiting lists so long ?
Mr. Forsyth : The hon. Gentleman should give some credit to that health board and every other health board in Scotland that has managed to increase the numbers of patients treated.
Mr. Canavan : It is the worst record in Scotland.
Mr. Forsyth : If the hon. Gentleman wants to find a worse record in Scotland for waiting lists, he should look at the waiting lists that were left to us by the previous Labour Government.
Knife Assaults
2. Mr. David Marshall : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland how many people in Scotland have been injured as a result of being assaulted with a knife or pointed article since 1988 ; and if he will make a statement.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton) : In the period 1 January 1988 to 30 June 1991, 2,370 in-patient discharges were admitted as emergencies having been assaulted by a cutting or piercing instrument. Figures for persons dealt with as out- patient emergencies are not available.
Mr. Marshall : Is not the Minister ashamed and horrified at those disgraceful and scandalous figures? Has he seen the excellent Glasgow Evening Times article of 20 November which highlights that serious problem in Scotland? When will he shake off his complacency and bring the law in Scotland in line with the law in England under section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988? I have been communicating with the Minister since 1988 on that problem. Is not the simple truth that the Government do not give a damn about law and order and do not care about the safety of people in their homes and on the streets?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : We are well aware of the facts in that connection and have substantially increased the capital allocations for police forces in Scotland by some £6 million this year, which is an enormous increase. We shall make certain that Strathclyde's bids are carefully considered before making a final allocation. I shall look into the point that the hon. Gentleman makes about an amendment to the law, but the existing penalties go up to life imprisonment for various forms of crime involving knives and the like. The Secretary of State's crime prevention committee is reviewing the position. If Strathclyde increased the number of police officers by 200 to the complement that it deserves, there would be a much stronger law and order policy there.
Mr. Wilson : We all know that there are crimes for which the penalties go up to life imprisonment, but that does not seem to cover the point raised so eloquently by my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Shettleston (Mr. Marshall). Does the Minister accept that in Scotland, particularly west central Scotland, there is currently an epidemic of violent crime such as armed robbery and the carrying of offensive weapons, including knives? I endorse what my hon. Friend said about the excellent efforts of the Glasgow Evening Times in drawing the matter to our attention. It is astonishing that, when the facts were put to the Minister, he was unable to give the statistics on the number of offences involving knives and other weapons
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with which stabbings can be carried out. Does the Minister also accept that far too many people in such communities are now living in fear of violent crime? In addition to the rhetoric of law and order, they want action in terms of policing which will enable people to leave their homes in the evening and not be curtailed by fear of violent crime.Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : We collect statistics on various crimes such as breach of the peace, vandalism, the carrying of offensive weapons, robbery, petty and serious assaults, attempted murder and murder. The Secretary of State's crime prevention committee is considering how information should be collected and will continue to do so. The hon. Member must remember that the Labour party strongly opposed the police powers of search, which we introduced and which have greatly helped to reduce the incidence of such crimes.
Mr. Bill Walker : How many additional policemen have been provided in Scotland and how much extra money, in real terms, have the Government allocated to law and order since 1979? Will my hon. Friend confirm that, if the Government were to introduce proposals to toughen up sentencing policy- -to impose stiffer sentences--we could look forward to Opposition Members agreeing with us for the first time?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Yes, indeed. It is important that the strongest penalties should be available. I mentioned the sentence of life imprisonment and the unlimited fines that are available for crimes involving knives. The number of police officers has increased enormously during the past 10 years. The important figure is the £6 million extra that will be allocated for capital equipment and buildings to assist police forces this year. The use of high technology will also be of great importance.
Home Improvement Grants
3. Mr. Darling : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent representations he has received about the home improvement grants scheme.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : I receive representations from time to time about various aspects of the home improvement grants scheme and its operation ; in the main those concern individual cases.
Mr. Darling : Is the Minister aware that there are now thousands of people waiting for home improvement grants, some of whom applied before 1984? Why does the Minister refuse to meet Edinburgh district council and other councils to discuss the crisis? Is not he aware that thousands of people's property will deteriorate unless grants are forthcoming? Why is the Scottish Office so feeble that it is not prepared to go to the Treasury to obtain the funds needed to complete the improvement scheme once and for all?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Edinburgh district council estimated the cost of clearing the backlog at £25.5 million and we made that allocation to it over a two-year period. It used the allocation, came back and said that its original estimate was entirely wrong and it required an extra £48 million--the original estimate was £48 million out. By contrast, Glasgow gave accurate estimates. I can give a commitment to the hon. Gentleman that we shall
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consider Edinburgh's bid with great care before making the final allocations to local authorities. Some £205 million has been made available to Edinburgh for repairs and improvement grants since 1979. That is a considerable sum ; Edinburgh has done well.Sir Hector Monro : Does my hon. Friend agree that the home improvement scheme has been one of the most successful in Scotland? Does he also agree that the increase this year is extremely valuable and that steps should be taken towards improving houses in rural districts, where improvement grants are particularly valuable and welcome?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Yes, that is extremely important. The rural housing strategy developed by Scottish Homes will also assist. Since the scheme was introduced, £957 million has been made available through it in Scotland to help bring many empty houses back into use and assist in reducing waiting lists.
Mr. Stephen : While welcoming the changes that the Minister has introduced to the home improvement grants scheme for houses affected by high radon levels, may I ask whether he agrees that in cases of severe hardship there should be access to 100 per cent. grants, as is the case in England and Wales?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : That would require legislation. However, what we can do immediately and are in the process of doing is to introduce a statutory instrument to increase the grant level to 90 per cent. That will substantially help those who are in the circumstances that the hon. Gentleman mentions. We have also made it clear that free tests will be available to anybody who wishes to have them in the hon. Gentleman's local authority area. We are conscious of the extent of the problem in the hon. Gentleman's constituency.
Sunday Trading
4. Mrs. Gorman : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the operation of Sunday trading laws in Scotland.
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Ian Lang) : The restrictions on Sunday trading contained in the Shops Act 1950 do not apply in Scotland, with the exception of hairdressers and barbers. Although there is almost complete freedom of trade, many traders choose not to do so in response to the prevailing wishes of their local communities. The present arrangements appear to work satisfactorily and I see no reason to alter the present position.
Mrs. Gorman : I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Has he any evidence of a decrease in church-going, an increase in marital break-up or an increase in the number of complaints to industrial tribunals by women who are asked to work on Sunday against their will? If he has no such evidence, does he think that the introduction of Sunday trading in Britain is likely to cause the kind of social and moral breakdown that has been suggested by some advocates of restrictions?
Mr. Lang : I am sure that the problems described by my hon. Friend have increased, but I have no evidence that
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any such increase is related to shops in Scotland opening on Sunday. I have no plans to change the present arrangements.Mr. Harry Ewing : Would not it be a good thing to allow barbers to open on Sunday, if only to help the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Eastwood (Mr. Stewart)?
Mr. Lang : As ever, the hon. Gentleman takes a great interest in hon. Members this side of the House, but I suppose that from his point of view it is a receding problem.
Western Isles
5. Mr. Macdonald : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the economic situation in the Western Isles.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Allan Stewart) : The Western Isles economy has performed relatively well irecent years despite a narrow base and inherent difficulties faced by island economies.
Mr. Macdonald : Does the Minister accept that the islands economy now faces its worst crisis since the war? Does he appreciate the despair and anger felt by the community at the Government's lack of response so far? Whatever the origins of the present crisis, does he agree that the brunt should not fall on the most vulnerable in the community--the elderly, the handicapped and school children? I extend an invitation to the Minister to visit the community. If he cannot accept it, can he at least dispatch a team of Scottish Office officials to see matters on the ground and report back to the Scottish Office on the grim situation faced by the islands?
Mr. Stewart : As the hon. Gentleman knows, my right hon. Friend has granted the islands council consent to borrow up to £24 million during the rest of this financial year. I recognise the effect of the decisions taken by Western Isles council. It is worth recording that before these expenditure reductions were announced Western Isles council received 98.4 per cent. of its expenditure from aggregate external finance--revenue support grant, non-domestic rate income and community charge grants. Only 1.6 per cent. of the expenditure was borne by community charge payers. The hon. Gentleman invited me to visit the area. If I am not able to visit the Western Isles in the near future, I shall certainly act on his suggestion that we should send a team of Scottish Office officials and that will be arranged as soon as is reasonably practicable.
Mr. Wallace : Does the Minister accept that transport costs are of considerable importance to the economy of the Western Isles? My constituents often look with envy at the relatively low freight costs for transport from the Scottish mainland to the Western Isles compared with transport costs from the mainland to the northern isles. When can we expect the Government to announce the subventions for next year? May we expect that the cost of transporting freight from the mainland to Orkney and Shetland will be comparable with the cost of such transport to the Western Isles?
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Mr. Stewart : Orkney and Shetland are further from the mainland than the Western Isles, but the answer to the hon. Member's specific question about when an announcement will be made is, shortly.
Homelessness
6. Mr. Hood : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what he is doing to discourage young Scottish homeless from leaving home and living rough in London.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : Grants totalling £150,000 over three years are being made to voluntary organisations for projects aimed at dissuading young Scots from drifting to London without making adequate preparation for housing and employment, assisting those in London who want to return to Scotland and supporting the young homeless in Scottish cities. Moreover, tomorrow I shall announce extra capital allocations of £4.137 million for specific projects for homelessness throughout Scotland, and Clydesdale will be one of the 29 authorities.
Mr. Hood : I thank the Minister for his answer. He will be aware that last night, thousands of young Scots slept rough on the streets of London and he may also be aware of the recent statement by the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, who referred to the fact that 25 per cent. of the homeless in London come from Scotland. Is not it a blight on Scotland that we cannot provide homes for our homeless, including those who are still kids? I am pleased to hear that the Minister will announce an increase tomorrow, but £1.2 million will not even look at the problem. Why does not he address the problem seriously and put real money into solving it--or will he continue to opt out and sell out, just as the Prime Minister did for the country in Maastricht yesterday?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : When we made available the special allocation of £3.5 million earlier in the year, eight authorities in Scotland came forward with specific projects that resulted in 700 extra housing units being made available. For that reason, we wish greatly to expand the programme and are doing so. If any authorities do not succeed tomorrow, they may still be considered for a share of the extra allocation of £7.5 million next year. The £50,000 awarded to voluntary organisations is specifically for the purpose of preventing homelessness and dissuading young people from coming to London when they have neither housing nor jobs.
Mr. Maxton : Is not the Minister's attitude smugly complacent in view of the fact that the Shelter survey shows an over 100 per cent. increase in homelessness in Scotland since 1983 and his Scottish office survey shows a 14 per cent. increase last year alone? Although the £4.1 million may be welcome to homeless people in Scotland, the Secretary of State for Scotland announced a £63 million cut in housing generally in Scotland last year and that does nothing to solve the problems of homelessness. Will he now announce an increase in investment in housing in Scotland and, more particularly, persuade the Cabinet to restore benefit to 16 and 17-year-olds in Scotland immediately?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton : First, no young person should be without income. As to housing allocations, the hon. Member must bear in mind the fact that the receipts
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are well up this year, so the gross programme should be considerable. However, there are 26,000 empty council houses, a considerable portion of which could be brought back into use. Local authorities take their statutory responsibilities seriously, so that in 1990-91, 82 per cent. of those assessed as homeless were found permanent accommodation by local authorities. We are giving them maximum encouragement in this direction.Constitutional Change
7. Mrs. Irene Adams : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now meet representatives of the Scottish Constitutional Convention to discuss proposals for constitutional change in Scotland.
8. Mr. McKelvey : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland if he intends to meet the Scottish Constitutional Convention to discuss the future government of Scotland.
Mr. Lang : I have no plans to meet the self-styled Scottish Constitutional Convention, whose report fails to address the substantive issues involved in constitutional change in Scotland. But I welcome any participation in the debate I have called for on these issues, provided that it addresses the issues in a realistic way.
Mrs. Adams : Will the Secretary of State recognise that now his party is being called to the debate, not the Opposition? Will he reconsider his decision on meeting members of the Scottish Constitutional Convention, which represents 70 per cent. of the views in Scotland, including the churches, trade unions, the Labour party and the Liberal party? Will he consider bringing the Conservative party, and talking to the Scottish National party to bring it into the Scottish Constitutional Convention so that we can then have a genuine debate on which way the constitution of Scotland should go?
Mr. Lang : I certainly do not intend to fight the Scottish National party's battles for it. The Scottish Constitutional Convention, which I have described in the past as the Labour party at prayer, failed to address any of the substantive issues that would affect Scotland's representation in the House if its proposals came into effect. It took no account of funding arrangements, parliamentary representation at Westminster or the position of the Secretary of State for Scotland, and the members of the convention disagreed among themselves on the number and sex of its members, the method of election and a number of other aspects affecting Scotland's constitutional future.
Mr. McKelvey : Some hon. Members will welcome the partial movement by the Secretary of State for Scotland in as much as we have had the enormous political death-bed confession that he will look at the Scottish situation. But does not he realise that throughout Scotland he and his cronies are seen as a
"wee parcel of rogues in a nation who were bought and sold for English gold"?
Why does not he take his head out of the sand and understand Scotland's problems? Scotland as a nation will determine its own sovereignty whether he agrees to it or not and he should be talking to the Scottish Constitutional Convention about the matter.
Mr. Lang : Far from being reluctant to debate the matter, I have invited the Opposition to take part in four
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debates on matter days in the Scottish Grand Committee to compensate for their failure to make use of those opportunities in the Scottish Grand Committee during the previous parliamentary Session. Far from being unaware of the impact on Scotland of the Scottish Constitutional Convention's proposals, I am aware that Scotland enjoys identifiable public expenditure 22 per cent. per head higher than the rest of the United Kingdom which would be jeopardised by any change in the constitutional arrangements.Mr. Rowe : It sounds slightly improbable that my right hon. Friend will be called to a meaningful debate on Scottish constitutional matters in the near future, but will he assure Conservative Members that were he to be so he is fully aware that people in England would take it amiss if any proposition were seriously entertained which allowed Scottish Members to decide matters in Scotland and then to have a say in English matters in England?
Mr. Lang : My hon. Friend identifies part of the problem which those who favour changes in the constitutional arrangements should address. In the event of the changes that the Opposition favour, one wonders whether Scottish questions could take place on the Floor of the House, or whether there would be a Scottish Grand Committee or Scottish Standing Committees.
Mr. Salmond : Both the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister have made clear statements in the past 10 days that if the Scottish people vote for independence at the election, independence is what we shall have, but will the Secretary of State say a bit more today about how he answers the current argument about whether he has the right to run Scotland with nine Members of Parliament and, according to the latest poll, 18 per cent. of the vote? Does he incorporate the votes of everyone who voted Labour or Liberal Democrat at the last election and use that as part of his mandate to enforce his unwanted policies on the Scottish people?
Mr. Lang : At the previous election I stood for election to a United Kingdom Parliament, as did the hon. Gentleman. As a Member of that Parliament, I am a member of the United Kingdom Government and no one has seriously called in question the right or propriety of the United Kingdom Government to govern Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.
Mr. John Marshall : Does my right hon. Friend agree that a tax- raising Scottish assembly would be the worst thing for Scotland because it would discourage the inward investment which will be encouraged into the United Kingdom by the fact that we are not part of the social charter?
Mr. Lang : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The tax-raising powers of such an assembly, which are referred to coyly by Opposition Members as being only marginal, would, even if they raised only 2p in the pound, cost a single man on average wages £4.72 per week. The single man on average wages will think carefully before welcoming such an impost.
Sir David Steel : Does the Secretary of State recognise how arrogant his original answer sounded with its reference to the "self-styled" Scottish Constitutional Convention? Does not he recognise that it is a broadly based representative body in which it was open to the
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Conservative party to participate and that for him to call now for a debate, once its work is completed, is extraordinary? He is still welcome to join the convention.Mr. Lang : The right hon. Gentleman can hardly refer to such a body as having the kind of authority with which he seeks to imbue it when it disagreed on a number of matters and failed to address any of the ones that really matter.
Mr. Dewar : May I add my congratulations to the Secretary of State on yet another about-turn? Does he recall that just a few months ago he dismissed devolution as a stale hangover from the 1960s in which there was no public interest? I therefore welcome his belated decision to take part in a full debate and the fact that he is now--I quote him from last week-- keen to acknowledge that there is always room for constitutional change. Will he give an assurance that his ideas for reform will be produced before the Scottish Grand Committee debate on the constitution that he proposes? Does he recognise that dialogue is not criticism by Ministers of everyone else's proposals without making any positive contribution themselves?
Mr. Lang : Once again, the hon. Gentleman shows great coyness in approaching debates on the issues that he and his colleagues support. He is trying to set preconditions before agreeing to those debates taking place. I welcome the possibility of debating the proposals of the Opposition parties. They have come forward with plans which, they say, are carefully costed and carefully thought through and represent the interests of the great body of the Scottish people. I wish to explore those proposals, lay bare the dangers which lurk beneath them and identify the threat not only to parliamentary representation from Scotland in this House but to the economic well-being of Scotland if the Labour party were ever in a position to exercise in Scotland the kind of powers that it would give to such an assembly.
9. Mr. Bill Walker : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has recently received about the governance of Scotland ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Lang : A range of representations, both for and against constitutional change in Scotland, has been received.
Mr. Walker : I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. Does he agree that there is only one place where the constitution of the United Kingdom can be changed, and it is this Parliament? Therefore, debates in this Parliament must address the realities of the constitution that the so- called self-appointed body would have to face such as the West Lothian question, the Goschen formula and the number of Members coming to this House from Scotland? Unless those constitutional proposals are properly, fully and adequately addressed in a manner that both this House and the other place can accept, they are no more than pipe dreams.
Mr. Lang : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. One of the important issues that would have to be addressed in any new constitutional settlement for Scotland would be the funding arrangements of Scotland within the United Kingdom. On 5 December The Scotsman said : "Of course, upon devolution there would have to be an adjustment in spending : there is no dispute about that."
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I think that the editor of The Scotsman would be surprised to hear the views of Opposition Members on that. However, it is a very important issue which would need to be fully addressed in any debate.Mr. Eadie : Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the problem is not the West Lothian question but the Westminster question, which will become predominant if, after having just nine Members, his party is left with none, or just two or three?
Mr. Lang : The hon. Gentleman is right to identify Westminster as the seat of government. It is the Union of the United Kingdom that would be breached by the sort of proposals that the Labour party identifies. I intend to expose the shortcomings of the Labour party proposals. Moreover, I do not anticipate the general election consequences to which the hon. Gentleman refers.
Mr Worthington : It is clear that the Secretary of State has not a single idea on the issue. If he wants a debate, he must produce some ideas. Part of the government of the United Kingdom consists of local government in Scotland. The Tory party's working party on local government--including Bearsden and Milngavie district council, one of the three Tory district councils--proposes that education, social work, housing, the police, fire, water, sewerage and strategic planning should be removed from local government and transferred either to the Secretary of State or to local prosperous companies, or that they should be privatised. Do the Government agree with those proposals? Is that part of the Secretary of State's proposal for the government of Scotland? Does the Secretary of State agree that when local democracy does not come up with the results that he wants he abolishes it? Is that his policy?
Mr. Lang : Oh dear, the hon. Gentleman is in a muddle. He contradicted himself within his own question by saying that we have no constitutional ideas and then identifying an area on which we are currently consulting with a view to making constitutional changes. Local government reform is important. We were consulting widely on the possible change to a single-tier all-purpose authority structure in Scotland. I do not regard the United Kindom constitution as set in concrete. It is not a written constitution--it is organic, and it can develop change and adapt to the needs of new circumstances. I should be more encouraged if I could identify within the Labour party a consensus for the preservation of the Union.
Steel Industry
10. Mr. Oppenheim : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent representations he has received from the Scottish steel industry.
Mr. Allan Stewart : My right hon. Friend recently received a letter from the chairman of the Scottish Steelfounders Association expressing concern about state subsidies to European steelfounders.
Mr. Oppenheim : Bearing in mind recent noisy Opposition condemnation of steel plant closures, has the Opposition spokesman yet had the guts to give the people of Scotland an unequivocal assurance that, given the chance, they would prevent such closures-- [Interruption.]
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Mr. Speaker : Order. The hon. Gentleman must ask about government policy.Mr. Oppenheim : Is the Opposition spokesman afraid that people will remember the days before the Government's policy when political meddling led to huge overcapacity, massive losses and the closure of no fewer than three plants under Labour in Scotland alone?
Mr. Stewart : My hon. Friend is absolutely right. No such assurances have been given by the Opposition because it is not possible for them to do so.
Dr. Bray : Is the Minister aware that the recent fall in British Steel profits has made British Steel look again at capital expenditure and ways of economising without damaging future profitability? Will he use this opportunity to ask British Steel to consider modernising the Dalzell plate mill in Motherwell rather than building an expensive new plate mill, which would be less profitable for British Steel?
Mr. Stewart : I have seen speculation about that. Naturally, we would welcome any investment at Dalzell and any decision that extended the plant's long-term prospects. Some time ago the Scottish Office put a submission to British Steel on the case for investment at Dalzell. That submission was given to the trade unions and is public knowledge. We would welcome any positive news on that front.
Mr. Tom Clarke : Is the Minister aware that perhaps there were so few representations to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State because the steel industry has been decimated in Scotland, especially in Lanarkshire? Does he accept that there should still be a future for the tube division despite the fact that workers are seeing imported tubes used in the North sea when they are capable of making them? To achieve that, there is an essential need for investment and training. That is particularly necessary in Lanarkshire.
Mr. Stewart : Like the hon. Gentleman, I regret the job losses at Clydesdale, which are due fundamentally to overcapacity in seamless tubes. I agree with the hon. Gentleman's general point about the Lanarkshire economy. That is why the Government have provided an extra £28 million for economic regeneration in Lanarkshire in the current year and why up to an extra £25 million will be available to the Lanarkshire development agency, in addition to what it would otherwise have received in 1992-93. I would hope that the hon. Gentleman would agree that many people of all political persuasions in Lanarkshire are working together extremely hard to build a better and more prosperous future for the area.
Agriculture Support
11. Sir Hector Monro : To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what increase in financial support is available to farmers in less-favoured areas for 1992 ; and if he will make a statement.
Mr. Michael Forsyth : Planned programme expenditure on agricultural support in Scotland in 1991-92 was £158 million. Planned expenditure in 1992-93 is £199.5 million an increase of 26 per cent. The great majority of that support is directed to the less-favoured areas, which include about 90 per cent. of agricultural land in Scotland.
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Sir Hector Monro : Does my hon. Friend agree that in recent years the income of farmers in Scotland, particularly those in the less-favoured areas, has fallen substantially? I welcome the recent payment of the suckler cow premium and the ewe premium, but when will the hill livestock compensatory allowance be announced, and will it be increased?
Mr. Forsyth : I agree with my hon. Friend. Farming is in a difficult position and farm incomes have dropped substantially. We increased the HLCAs last year by an average of 14 per cent. I know that my hon. Friend is anxious for a conclusion to be reached for next year, and I hope that it will be possible to do so soon. As my hon. Friend knows, we have agreed to review the position of hill farming, and I know that the farming union is anxious to assist the Government in recognising the problems facing agriculture.
Mr. Foulkes : Is the Minister aware that when I recently addressed a meeting of the Ayr, Renfrew and Bute Black-Faced Sheep Breeders Association not only was I extremely well received but much concern was expressed about the position of sheep rearers in the area? The association is dissatisfied with Government policy, particularly with the fact that agriculture in Scotland is dealt with by a Minister in the House of Lords. Does the Minister agree that agriculture would be given higher priority and better consideration if it were dealt with by a Minister in this House?
Mr. Forsyth : I hope that the hon. Gentleman did not try to pull the wool over the association's eyes, as he usually does. My noble Friend the Under-Secretary of State addressed a meeting of farmers in my constituency. They were extremely impressed by what he said and were buoyed up by his message that the Government are determined to ensure that the proposals on reform of the common agricultural policy are strongly resisted because they are not in the interests of Scotland's farmers. I imagine that that was one of the matters raised with the hon. Gentleman, and I hope that he was able to assure farmers of the splendid job that my noble Friend is doing for farming in Scotland.
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