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Mr. Ashton : Is the Minister aware that his variety of reasons sounds like waffle? All that he can manage is the provision of 2,000 extra houses in rural areas, despite the fact that thousands have been sold to council tenants and councils have been prevented by him from replacing them. There is now a massive shortage of council rented tenancies for manual workers, particularly people who work in such places as farm factories or local garages. This is turning the countryside into dormitory suburbs for yuppies. Manual workers, including the lower working class, just cannot afford to pay the prices that houses are fetching. Previously, when tenants died, houses became available. When will the Minister ensure that large numbers of council houses are built in villages so that people may have decent places to live?
Mr. Yeo : As we are within 14 months of a general election, it is most timely that the House has been reminded of the Labour party's underlying hostility to the Government's policy on the sale of council houses. From what the hon. Gentleman has said, it is clear that his mind is still set in the ways of the 1940s. He sees local authorities as the monopoly providers of accommodation for renting. We wholly reject that solution. We are determined to see a substantial increase in the private rented sector and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will persuade his colleagues to support us in that important objective. We are also providing the Housing Corporation with substantially increased resources--rising from just over £1 billion last year to well over £2 billion a year in three years' time--to expand very substantially the provision, through housing associations, of subsidised accommodation for renting. I am glad to be able to say, that, in the hon. Gentleman's constituency alone, the Housing Corporation is spending £1.3 million in the current year on the provision of another 40 units.
Mr. Gill : Although the additional £50 million in the current year is most welcome, I hope that my hon. Friend can assure the House that there will be similar provision in future years so that local authorities and others engaged in the provision of affordable housing in rural areas may have an ongoing programme. It is extremely difficult to generate programmes at very short notice.
Mr. Yeo : I share my hon. Friend's concern about the need to provide an adequate supply of affordable housing in rural areas. We are pleased with the results so far of the £50 million credit approvals that we have provided for the current year. Obviously we shall keep an eye on the situation. We are determined to ensure that all rural areas will get a fair share, whether through local authority credit approvals or through the Housing Corporation. As I said, the corporation is building up its programme. Over the next three years, including the current year, housing associations will build more than 6,000 units in very small villages.
Mr. Battle : How will local authorities in rural areas that have no housing--all their houses having been sold off--fulfil their statutory obligation, under the Housing (Homeless Persons) Act 1977, to house the homeless? How can that obligation possibly be fulfilled when there are no council houses?
Mr. Yeo : A number of schemes are available to local authorities. I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the end of my original answer, where I referred to the fact that
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local authorities may now introduce schemes in respect of land not otherwise designated for housing, in which case the land component in the total cost of a house is almost entirely eliminated. In many areas, landowners are coming forward with offers of land and it is up to the local authorities to respond.Mr. Walden : Does my hon. Friend agree that houses for renting or for sale should not be constructed at the expense of the environment? In the light of yesterday's published estimates of future aggregate demand, will he look urgently at the possibility of encouraging substitutes? If what is going on is allowed to continue, constituencies like mine will look like a lawn after the moles have been at it.
Mr. Yeo : I know of my hon. Friend's close interest in this subject and I am glad to be able to tell him that I entirely share his concern that the proportion of recycled and secondary aggregates that are used in all forms of construction should be substantially increased.
Mr. Soley : Bluster is not going to get the Minister anywhere. Can he confirm that the Association of District Councils, which is Conservative controlled, has consistently told the Government that selling council houses without replacing them--the Labour party's view is that they should be replaced--is leading to a catastrophic shortage of rented accommodation in rural and urban areas? Why does he think that Conservative councils in rural areas have got it so badly wrong and he has got it right?
Mr. Yeo : The House must have listened carefully and in vain for any hint in the hon. Gentleman's question that he supports the policy of selling council houses. It is perfectly open to housing authorities in rural areas to meet needs in the ways that I have outlined ; by co- operating with the housing association movement ; by taking advantage of our off-site plan policy so that low-cost housing can be provided at prices that are affordable both for sale and for rent ; and through the judicious granting of planning permissions to the private sector, which is also ready and willing to help meet the need.
Council Tax
10. Mr. Peter Bottomley : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment by how much the council tax would be reduced if Greenwich received the same amount per head for social services and for other services as (a) Wandsworth and (b) Lewisham.
Mr. Portillo : Neither Lewisham's nor Wandsworth's standard spending assessment would be appropriate for Greenwich, as each has different social and demographic characteristics. Greenwich could reduce its bills under the council tax by reducing its spending, which exceeds standard spending assessment by a larger percentage than any other inner London borough.
Mr. Bottomley : Does my hon. Friend accept that it is Greenwich council's fault that it lost £2 million on its direct labour organisation and that it is the only council in the country which has met the capping criteria every single year, but that it is not the council's fault that the expenditure needs assessment works against its interests?
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Will my hon. Friend or his officials meet officers from Greenwich, with me, to discuss some of the implications of what is outside Greenwich's control?Mr. Portillo : I do not believe that the standard spending assessment works against Greenwich's interest. I remind my hon. Friend that, for example, Greenwich receives much more for education than does either Wandsworth or Lewisham. However, I am willing to discuss with my hon. Friend and representatives of the council the standard spending assessment. If I receive an invitation from him or from the council I shall be happy to join them in a meeting.
Farm Shops
11. Mrs. Gorman : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has any plans to make farm shops liable to uniform business rate.
Mr. Key : Farm shops are, and have always been, liable to non- domestic rates.
Mrs. Gorman : Even though my constituents and those of my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon (Mr. Amess) gave overwhelming support last week to the Government's new policies on local taxation, with an 8 per cent. swing to the Conservatives wiping out a long-standing majority for Labour on Basildon council, thus reducing it from the Arsenal to the Accrington Stanley--
Mr. Speaker : Order. Could we relate this to farm shops? Mrs. Gorman --nevertheless the greengrocers of my constituency are concerned that while they pay the uniform business rate, farm shops do not. Unless my farmers, who are extremely versatile, have taken to growing bananas, pineapples, oranges and kiwi fruit, there is a case for an even playing field to be created for those who sell vegetables all over the country.
Mr. Key : I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me the opportunity to congratulate her electors on a sensible decision last Thursday. My hon. Friend is absolutely right ; we wish to see the market operating on, perhaps, a level turnip field. Of course, farmers pay rates not only on farm shops but on agricultural buildings used for the storage of fruit and vegetables grown elsewhere, or for the storage of intervention board surplus grain or skimmed milk. Where produce is sold at the farm gate, the local Inland Revenue valuation officer may make an assessment for rates. A permanent stall situated at the entrance to a farm, used on a regular basis for the sale of farm produce, might be regarded as rateable.
Mr. Corbett : Will the Minister confirm that under the proposals for the council tax there are no plans to exempt farm shops from paying some form of rates? Will he also acknowledge that in scores of small businesses families who live above the shop and at the moment pay the poll tax upstairs and the uniform business rate downstairs would be exceptionally angry if there was any hint of exemption for farm shops?
Mr. Key : I reassure the hon. Gentleman that there are no plans to alter the rating of agricultural premises. We looked at the non-domestic rating system in the first part of our review of local government structure and finance
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and decided to retain the principle of the uniform business rate. That does not mean that we are wedded to every detail of the existing business rating system. We are certainly prepared to listen to those who wish to suggest improvements, but we do not envisage any major changes.Mr. Lord : Is my hon. Friend aware of the immense pressures on farm shops and on all village shops for a series of reasons? Is he further aware that often the people who depend most on those shops are the elderly and those without transport who cannot travel to supermarkets to get goods at cheaper prices? When looking at these matters, will he do all that he can to ensure that we do not pile any more burdens on small shops in rural areas?
Mr. Key : Yes, of course, I shall be delighted to ensure that we give due consideration to important sources of community focus in rural areas. My hon. Friend will acknowledge that it was the revaluation process that many small businesses, and village shops in particular, found difficult rather than the tax itself. If the reform had not been introduced, the small business community would be carrying a burden in excess of £1 billion extra under the old rating system.
Environmental Assessments
12. Ms. Quin : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment when he next plans to meet his European Community counterparts to discuss proposals for the environmental assessment of policies, plans and programmes.
Mr. Trippier : The European Commission has not yet formally adopted proposals to require environmental assessment of policies, plans and programmes, but it is a matter which I expect to discuss in due course with my counterparts from other member states.
Ms. Quin : Would not the draft proposals allow environmental considerations to be built in at every stage of the planning process and much more fully than they are at present? For that reason, will the Government put their weight behind the proposals and ensure that progress is made on them as quickly as possible?
Mr. Trippier : I could not possibly put my weight behind the proposals as currently constituted by the Commission because they are, in truth, half-baked.
Mr. Trippier : The hon. Lady intervenes to say "too tough". Rather than any commitment in any Labour party document, I can at least see one in the Government's White Paper in September which stated : "The United Kingdom is committed to a more systematic approach within Government, to the appraisal of environmental costs and benefits before decisions are taken."
The proposals suggested by the European Commission are in a mess and the vast majority of the member states accept that. I hope that they will be tidied up so that we can achieve our objectives, which I am sure that the hon. Lady shares.
Dr. Hampson : My hon. Friend has led a number of construction industry export drives. Before he joins European Ministers, will he talk to the Treasury about the export credits guarantee policy that it pursues and which has put our construction industry at a disadvantage
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compared with the European industry, to the point that it now seems that the British trade centre in Moscow will be built by the French and the British airport terminal in Moscow by the Italians?Mr. Trippier : I shall certainly be happy to raise the matter with my Treasury colleagues.
Mr. Win Griffiths : Given the Minister's commitment when answering question 7 and again in mouthing platitudes from his White Paper, why cannot he now say that he will endorse the principle of environmental assessment of planning and structure development at the local planning stage so that consideration of environmental matters is built into the system and so that we do not deal with them on an ad hoc basis and often far too late? The Minister should put his commitment where his words are supposed to be.
Mr. Trippier : The hon. Gentleman's knowledge of such matters, as I discovered again in Committee this morning, shows an alarming gap ; perhaps he suffers from delusions of adequacy. He has again revealed that he is unaware that the Government have already accepted the principle of environmental impact assessment. It is there in black and white in the White Paper. We intend to deliver and we are concerned about the detail which would have to come from the European Commission.
Miss Emma Nicholson : Although I welcome the Government's commitment to a cleaner environment and especially the White Paper, will the Minister confirm that he will do all that he can to ensure a level playing field in Europe? He will be aware of the 1 million mythical olive trees that the common agricultural policy set-aside scheme supports. Can he assure us that there will not be 1 million mythical rivers for which Europe gives clean water grants from money taken out of our pockets? We obey the rules, but Europe often does not.
Mr. Trippier : My hon. Friend has a very good point, but I should put it in a very different way. On environmental matters covering Europe, we play cricket, but I am pretty sure that others play rugby. Experience teaches me that the position will improve and that there will be a more level playing field after the introduction of the European Environmental Agency. Then we can make fair comparisons, carefully analyse the statistics put to the agency and compare like with like. At the moment, I am not satisfied that we are doing so.
Mr. Simon Hughes : In the light of the incident off the north Norfolk coast last Friday, will the Minister put on the agenda at the next Council meeting the environmental assessment of the transport by sea of hazardous chemicals? Is he aware that the loss overboard of the ethyl acrylate containers revealed two major defects? First, there is a lack of security in the transport of potentially lethal cargoes which could have a damaging effect on the marine environment. Secondly, once overboard, there was no labelling on the containers, which added to the risk to both marine life and the people trying to find the containers in the difficult waters off that coast.
Mr. Trippier : One point that the hon. Gentleman mentioned worries me--that the containers were not labelled. However, my understanding of the incident is somewhat at odds with what the hon. Gentleman has expressed to the press and in a letter to the Department of
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the Environment. Immediate action was taken last Friday. It was confirmed at 3.40 pm that the araldite hardener was no danger to the marine environment and that the other chemicals were only marginally toxic. Neither the hon. Gentleman nor I wishes to mislead the House or indulge in any form of scaremongering which could put the fear of God into many people when it is not necessary. The chemicals were properly stowed in a well-found ship, but the tanks broke adrift in bad weather. That can happen and it has happened. So far, according to my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Transport and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment, the matter has been dealt with satisfactorily. I shall look into the precise point that the hon. Gentleman makes about labelling and write to him.Mr. Favell : As a north-west Member, my hon. Friend may have read in the local press that the Department of Transport has been reported to the European Commission for failing to obtain an environmental assessment of the impact of the A6 bypass. He will certainly have had experience of driving up and down that miserable road and the traffic conditions on it. When he meets his counterparts in Europe will he tell them that the people of Stockport are well capable of assessing the environmental impact of the bypass and that the European Commission should mind its own bloody business?
Mr. Trippier : I shall have a careful look at that, but my hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not use such colourful language.
New Houses
13. Mr. Ronnie Campbell : To ask the Secretary of State for the Environment how many new houses for sale he expects will be completed during 1991-92.
The Minister for Housing and Planning (Sir George Young) : The Government do not make forecasts of completions by private housebuilders.
Mr. Campbell : Is the Minister aware that Blyth Valley borough council in my constituency has accrued £23 million over 10 years through the sale of council houses? Is he further aware that with that money it could have built at least 1,000 houses, but it has built only 290 houses during the whole period? When will the Government start building council houses for the needy and homeless?
Sir George Young : I hope that the hon. Gentleman recognises that that is £23 million which his local council would not have had if he had listened to Opposition Members. There would have been no right-to-buy receipts to have a debate about. Thanks to the sale of council houses, we have sustained a far higher level of capital expenditure on public sector housing than would have
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been the case. For the future we look to housing associations, not local authorities, to build affordable homes for rent.Mr. John Greenway : Does my hon. Friend agree that the increase in the number of people in Britain who own their homes is one of the greatest achievements of the Government in the past 10 years? Does he further agree that the key to ensuring an adequate supply of new homes in future which people will want to buy and want to rent is to continue the policy of requiring local authorities to put in place statutory local plans which define where the houses shall be built? The release of adequate land is central to the supply of new houses.
Sir George Young : I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Our planning policies are designed to ensure that there is a five-year supply of land to meet housing needs throughout the country. Through regional guidance and monitoring of the structure of the district plans, it is our aim to ensure that land is available to meet the housing needs of local people.
Mr. George Howarth : In view of the obvious gaps in the information that is being fed to the Minister about the number of starts in homes for sale, I shall help him. I do not know whether he is aware that, earlier this week, the Building Employers Confederation conducted a state-of-trade inquiry into that subject. Its conclusion was--[ Hon. Members :-- "Question."] I am coming to the question. Its conclusion was this :
"We are pleased to see the very slight improvement in the private house building sector. Any real recovery in the housing market still seems to be a very long way off and will depend crucially on further cuts in interest rates and mortgages"--
Mr. Speaker : Order. Paraphrase, please. Do not quote.
Mr. Howarth : There is no increase. What is the Minister going to do about that?
Sir George Young : With house prices stable, with earnings rising between 5 and 10 per cent., and with interest rates falling, the prospects for house buyers and house builders are excellent.
Mr. Dickens : What is the point in building more and more council houses when, at the moment, half a million council houses stand empty? We were talking earlier about recycling. If local government recycled council houses more quickly when they stand empty for weeks and sometimes months, there would be no problem with the homeless in this country.
Sir George Young : I am sure that my hon. Friend's words will have been heard throughout the country. The 10 worst local authorities for voids are either Labour or Liberal Democrat controlled.
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