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can be reached is that development is not a bad thing. Villages cannot remain in a time warp or stand still, but where there is to be development, it must be of good quality.The Government have been wrong to resist testing the quality of new buildings. In the case of a collection of buildings, a panel of designers and architects should be established at each local authority planning level to examine the design of a development and the quality of the materials that will be used, and to offer practical comments, so that the final appearance is much more sympathetically related to the environment.
In addition to all the problems that I have already mentioned, there has been a failure to deal properly with the infrastructure, despite the increasing population in the south of England. One should not provide new homes without ensuring that there are sufficient public funds to finance a complementary infrastructure. The population of South Hams has grown by 20 per cent. over the past 10 years, but there has been no increase in the funds available for police cover, school places, hospital beds, water supplies, or sewage disposal. That influx of people over the past decade has not been accompanied by a growth in public investment. The National Rivers Authority has rightly recommended an embargo on all new development in Dartmouth and Kingsweir. The NRA is beginning to use its teeth, and is saying, "Until you put the sewerage in order, you cannot go on building more housing."
Private companies have been allowed to develop without the support of a corresponding public infrastructure. I welcome the NRA's intervention. The necessary infrastructure does not mean just adequate sewerage provision but recreational facilities, extra police cover, better schools and sufficient doctors. Although planning authorities have tried to grant permission on the basis that the planning gain to the developer will be returned to the community, getting the private developer to cover that aspect will knock up the price of his houses. Property for young people will then be more expensive than it should be, which will in turn add to inflation, as buyers seek higher incomes to pay for their houses.
One or two of my hon. Friends mentioned derelict land. I have been speaking about that subject in the House for the past 12 years, and I apologise for repeating myself. However, it is clearly right that we should find out the amount of vacant public land that exists in our towns and cities and is surplus to requirements. The right hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams) spoke about surplus land in his constituency, and it is true that large areas of underutilised, derelict, vacant land are available which should be used first for building before we start to eat into the green fields outside our towns.
It is paradoxical that it was my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine), the new Secretary of State for the Environment, who, as a Minister, set up the public land registers in 1981. The registers were set up to identify all land in public ownership in this country which was surplus to requirements. In 1982, I believe that it amounted to about 120,000 acres. To the credit of the Government, about 60,000 acres has already been sold. However, our planning process creates public vacant, dormant, derelict, under-utilised land. So, however much land is sold, more is coming on to the register.
Furthermore, the land register is selective. As a result, much land which should be on the register is excluded because it is the wrong shape or size, or because the public
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authority has plans for the land. When a public utility is privatised, its land is taken off the public register because it is private.Despite all the sales, and everything that has been done to reduce the amount of vacant land, about 90,000 acres of public land has still not been utilised. Academics generally consider that that figure would be 200,000 acres if the limitations and conditions which prevent certain land from being included were lifted.
I suspect that one of the issues that the Minister will wish to deal with in his wind-up speech is whether he will find a way--perhaps in the new planning Bill--to lift the conditions which exclude many acres of public vacant land, so that people will know how many hundreds of thousands of acres of vacant, dormant land are surplus to requirements. The Secretary of State for the Environment must take powers to do something about that.
Since 1978, I have been asking successive Secretaries of State to do something to release public vacant dormant, derelict, or under-utilised land. Every Secretary of State does a little more, but none has been adventurous enough to ensure that that land is used before the green field sites around our towns and cities are spoilt. Will the Minister offer us something a little more practical today than his predecessors have done? They have cried crocodile tears and said that it was dreadful that we had all this waste land and we must do something about it, but no one has done much.
I direct the Minister's attention to a splendid publication entitled "Public Land Utilisation Management Schemes", which I had the privilege of writing some 18 months ago. It illustrated the scale of the problem, and invited the Government to adopt a sensible solution. It is a disgrace that more public waste land has not been developed. It would vastly improve our urban areas if it was. Not only does it mean that rural land outside our cities is being used, when derelict land within them could be used first, but vacant land has a dramatic effect upon surrounding property values. It also affects the neighbourhood, as the tax base on the land is reduced. Local shops do not have the custom that they would have if the land were developed. One would have thought that there would be an incentive to public authorities to use the land, as they would then have a greater rate base, whether it were used for industry or, if it was developed for residential use, from the community charge. I have mentioned these matters before in the House, and I do not apologise for mentioning them again in such a wide-ranging debate. Their importance cannot be over-emphasised. Unless we get forecasts, planning and design right, we shall damage the character of the local environment and diminish the quality of people's lives.
11.53 am
Mr. Tony Banks (Newham, North-West) : I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Romford (Mr. Neubert) for his widely termed notion, and I apologise to the hon. Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) for bringing the debate back to the area I am most concerned about and familiar with--the capital. The motion states :
"while welcoming the general improvement in people's living standards and the increasing freedom which they enjoy in their everyday lives".
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It would be wrong to suggest that there have not been some benefits for some people in eleven and a half years of Conservative Government, but all things are relative. When one considers my borough of Newham, in the east end of London, or indeed, when one considers London as a whole, one realises that everything is relative and that a large number of people have suffered badly as a result of eleven and a half years of Thatcherite policies.The front page of yesterday's edition of the Daily Mirror carried a picture of the ex-Prime Minister sitting in the back of a car, looking tearful as she left Downing street. A similiar picture appeared in the Daily Mail. I do not think that those pictures should have been published. The way newspapers intrude into private grief in unacceptable and vulgar. I did not like that picture and drew no satisfaction from it. On a human level, I certainly felt compassion for the Prime Minister because I could understand how she felt--but on a political level I felt no compassion for her. Having been ousted from the premiership by her own party, she was weeping a few tears, but at my weekly Friday night advice surgery in Stratford tonight people will be weeping buckets of tears. That is no exaggeration--it happens every week. I take a supply of tissues with me to hand out to constituents who get very tearful when trying to describe their problems with housing, social security, visas, and how to survive from breakfast to dinner--assuming that they are able to get those meals. They describe circumstances which have largely been brought about by central Government policies.
When I see the ex-Prime Minister weeping that little tear on the front page of the Daily Mirror and think of my constituents crying buckets, I have no compassion whatever for her at a political level. Yesterday we heard the new Prime Minister talking about looking at policies afresh, at his first Prime Minister's Question Time, saying that he was his own man. He said that he did not intend to beat his chest and identify those policies that he was intent on changing, but he made it clear that he intended to change a number of them. Last night, in a speech in Manchester, I believe, he started to talk about a more caring society--an admission that there is something to rectify in our present society, and he is absolutely right to say that there is much to be done and that policies will have to be changed. He will have to answer to the House and to the electorate, and tell them why he supported those policies as a loyal Thatcherite Minister for all those years when he now says that they are to be changed. We need to know that. Enormous damage has been done to my constituency, to my borough and to London by eleven and a half years of the right-wing, uncaring, selfish Thatcherite policies that the new Prime Minister supported so loyally in the past.
I remember Councillor John Major on Lambeth borough council. He was a good chair of housing--certainly a good one for a Tory but he was spending the kind of money that borough councils can only dream about these days. I believe that he presided over a housing investment budget of £100 million. Things have changed dramatically since then. Now that we have Prime Minister Major, I want to know whether Chancellor Major is completely dead and buried, or whether there will be some renaissance of the progressive figure whom Lambeth witnessed between 1968 and 1971. I should be the first to welcome the change, but
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I doubt whether the changes in policy will be so drastic--as one of my hon. Friends said, they may have changed the singer, but the song remains the same.In those eleven and a half years, my borough has suffered greatly. We are the second most deprived local authority area in England. Unemployment has gone up dramatically. In 1979, we had 6 per cent. unemployment, and by the mid-1980s, it was up to 18 per cent. Thank goodness, it has come down to only 10 per cent., but that is still considerably higher than it was in 1979, and once again it is on the increase. In 1986, the average earnings of Newham male workers were 15 per cent. below the London average, and by 1988, the most recent figure that I have, they were 19 per cent. below. In 1986, women in Newham received average London earnings, but by 1988, these had fallen 7 per cent. below. One can see the same in London as a whole. In 1979, unemployment in Greater London was 3.4 per cent. In September 1990, it was 6.3 per cent. Not once since 1979, all those years of the Tory economic miracle, did unemployment fall below 3.4 per cent., the level inherited by the former Prime Minister in 1979. As can be imagined, there is much poverty in my borough. In 1989, 35 per cent. of households were dependent on income support. In 1985-86, the DHSS single payment grant for the borough was £2.5 million. That was money for grants for specific vital items of household equipment. There was a change in the regulations in 1988 and the money that was made available to the social fund budget was limited to £1.8 million. We knew that there would be an increase in demand, but the amount of money that could be called on was dramatically reduced.
Newham health authority estimates that it lost £2.5 million between 1982 and 1987. Between 1979 and 1989, the number of hospital beds fell by one third. When one considers the indices which matter to ordinary people, the terms of today's motion fall flat. When I hear about the economic miracle, and all this social advance, I accept that in certain areas and among certain categories of the population, benefits have been derived from eleven and a half years of Thatcherite policies, but it has mostly been by those who can afford the best. The poorest have got poorer in comparison with the rich, as the statistics show clearly.
This gap is shown most markedly in housing and the homeless, in London as a whole and Newham in particular. Some 70 per cent. of all the cases with which I have to deal in my advice surgery--it will be the same tonight-- involve housing problems. I suspect that it is the same for virtually every other London Member of Parliament and probably for a large number representing constituencies outside London. People come to my surgery desperately wanting somewhere to live, but there is nothing that one can say. All I can provide is a shoulder to cry on, with my infinite supply of tissues. Unfortunately, I cannot offer them what they really want--the early prospect of somewhere decent to live.
One does not have to have a PhD in housing administration to find the causes of the problem. They are the massive reduction in housing investment programme money, which is down 80 per cent. in real terms since 1979, the attacks on local authorities and the restrictions placed on them in their attempts to deal with housing problems. Make no mistake about it--local authorities still have responsibility for housing. When mortgages go up because of high interest rates and the building societies repossess
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homes, people turn to the local authority, which can only put them in bed and breakfast. That is crazy. One would have thought that it would not be beyond the wit of Ministers to devise a scheme whereby local authorities and building societies could get together and work out that it is cheaper for a local authority to pay the building societies to keep people in their homes rather than put them in bed and breakfast accommodation. Furthermore, it costs more to put people in bed and breakfast accommodation than to build new units of accommodation. Those are the economics of the madhouse, particularly in London where the pressure is greatest.My case is proved by the number of council housing starts in my constituency in the eleven and a half years since the right hon. Member for Finchley (Mrs. Thatcher) became Prime Minister. In 1978-79, Newham started 1,079 new units of accommodation. In 1979-80, it was 431. The figures go down, but I shall not go through all of them. I will take just the last few years. In 1987-88, there were 31 starts ; in 1988-89, there were 105 ; in 1989-90, there were 191, and in 1990-91 the number of starts is estimated to be a big fat zero--Newham will build no new units of accommodation.
On the other hand, applications from homeless people more than doubled from 1,059 in 1981 to 2,347 in 1989-90. The real scandal, and what really annoys me--I have made the point before and I shall continue to make it because the situation is so outrageous--is that the cost of providing temporary housing in Newham has increased from £52,000 in 1983-84 to £5.5 million in 1987-88. That is crazy, given how many units of accommodation could be built for that amount of money if the Government would only sanction such expenditure. The figure for bed and breakfast and temporary housing this year will be £4 million.
In common with other London councils, particularly Labour councils, Newham has been able to decrease that cost by using leased accommodation, which makes sense because there are more vacant properties about both in Newham and in London as a whole because builders cannot sell units or building societies have repossessed them. Four out of five vacant properties in London are in the private sector, not the public sector.
As the sane individual I know you to be, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you would think that it would make sense for the local authority to lease from those who cannot sell or those who want to rent so as to accommodate the homeless --but the Government want to stop that, and I want the Minister to explain why. Such a scheme would surely help everyone, but in the Cabinet there is an ideological hangup, which I assume still exists, about letting local authorities be involved in housing. The Government want local authorities to provide basic accommodation and act as the final safety net, but no more than that. The Government's ideological fixation about the role of local authorities stands in the way of dealing with one of the most critical problems of London and of my borough--that of housing. The problem in London as a whole is similar to that in Newham. In 1979, there were few people begging on the streets of London or sleeping in cardboard boxes. I challenge Conservative Members to rebut that. In 1979, there were 1,200 families in bed and breakfast in London, and 14,000 had been accepted as homeless. In 1990, after eleven and a half years of economic miracle, social progress and Thatcherite policies, there are 3,000 people
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sleeping on the streets of London and 8,000 families, comprising some 30,000 people, in bed and breakfast accommodation. There are 32, 000 families homeless, and young people denied social security are forced to sleep in shop doorways on the Strand or the subways under Waterloo bridge--what a testament to eleven and a half years of Thatcherite policies. I therefore do not feel sorry for the Prime Minister, weeping a little tear as she moved from No. 10 Downing street to a mock-Georgian mansion in Southwark. When I think of the tragedy that she has inflicted on so many families in my constituency and in London as a whole, I have no compassion for her whatever. In 1978, London councils built no fewer than 13,000 council houses for rent. In 1989, the figure for London as a whole was just over 1, 000. My borough was building more than 1,000 council houses per year when the right hon. Member for Finchley was first elected Prime Minister of this country. When will the Government wake up to this enormous crisis, realise how much misery has been inflicted on so many Londoners and start to do something about it instead of talking about the mythical miracles that we are supposed to have experienced in the past eleven and a half years?In 1979 it was possible for people to afford to buy their own homes. Now, however, we have astronomical interest rates--higher than in any other European country. Our inflation rate and balance of payments deficit are also higher than in any other European country--some miracle ! In 1979, young people could afford to buy their own homes, but the average price of a home in London in 1990 is £85,000, so it is impossible for large numbers of people--indeed, for all those to whom I have referred, the genuinely homeless--to afford to buy their own homes.
Local authorities provide the basic services that people need in their day- to-day lives. When I walk about the streets of Forest Gate, people regularly ask me what I am going to do about litter on the streets, the broken paving stones, the abandoned or illegally parked cars, and about housing--I have never yet been asked what I am going to do about the Gulf. That is not to suggest that the people of Newham are not interested in what is happening in the Gulf--when we have solved their day-to-day problems, we can get down to talking about the situation in the Gulf, but ordinary people will not spend a great deal of time thinking about world events if their streets are not clean, they have nowhere to live and there are no buses or trains to get them to work in the morning. Local authorities deal with many, if not all, people's basic requirements. That is why the local authority role in London, as elsewhere, is so crucial to the lives of our people. Local democracy underpins parliamentary democracy. In those circumstances, one would have thought that there would be a genuine partnership between central Government and local government in dealing with these problems.
I am not a natural consensual Member of Parliament. As a socialist, I bitterly oppose capitalism. The hon. Member for Eltham (Mr. Bottomley) paid me a tribute when he said that I and my hon. Friends the Members for Newham, North-East (Mr. Leighton) and for Newham, South (Mr. Spearing) fight hard for the economic advancement of our borough. We regularly invite Ministers to Newham. I have no hang-ups about talking to
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Tory Ministers--if I could win benefits for my area, I would sit down and sup with the devil, and having invited certain Ministers to Newham, I feel that I have done just that. I do not understand why I cannot get this point over to the Government--if boroughs do not say, "We don't like you because you're a Tory Government and we're Labour local authorities", why are the Government not prepared to walk half -way to meet us? Why has the old partnership between central Government and local authorities gone? Local authorities used to be allowed to get on with the job they were elected to do--providing basic services. Why do the Government constantly confront, attack and denigrate local authorities? Why do they slander local councillors and use pejorative language, referring to "spendrift Labour councils, " including mine, when they know in their heart of hearts that Labour local authorities are struggling as hard as they possibly can to deal with enormous social and economic problems?I accept that some authorities are not so efficient as they ought to be, and that some of them spend money which could be better spent on other projects, but that is no reason for the Government's wholesale assault on local authorities since 1979. I hope that Councillor John Major will re- emerge at some stage and remember his experiences as a local authority member, and that that will make him change many of the policies pursued by his predecessor, who had no contact with local authorities--apart from the fact that her father was an alderman--and who had no love, affection or concern for local authorities.
The amount of money being taken away from London local authorities amounts to billions of pounds, so it is hardly surprising that they have run into problems over rates increases. Money has been taken away from them regularly by central Government, but unless local authorities are provided with the resources to deal with their problems there will be no respite for the people of my area, or for the people of London as a whole.
The hon. Members for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) and for Eltham referred to the way in which London's transport could be improved, and it certainly needs to be improved. We have one of the most overcrowded, overpriced and inefficient transport systems in the whole of Europe. It may even be the worst transport system in the EEC. If London's transport is to be improved, additional resources must be made available. There must also be a strategic plan for transport. It is all very well to say that London boroughs should consider providing cycle lanes, but it is pretty silly to have a cycle lane or a bus lane which goes only as far as the borough boundary and then disappears. There must be a strategic plan, and London needs a strategic authority to deal with planning, transport and other services which can be provided only on a regional basis. London is not a large Birmingham or Manchester, nor is it a small town--it is a region, and if a region is to be properly planned, it needs a strategic regional authority.
Another legacy of eleven and a half years of Thatcherism in London is an empty county hall--another monument to the right hon. Member for Finchley. The Government wanted to turn it into a luxury hotel but--surprise, surprise--the deal fell through. And why was that? It was because high interest rates led to great pressures on the property market and suddenly, no one wanted to be involved in mega-million deals. So the deal fell through, and I am glad that it did. I hope that it hurt those in the consortium a great deal financially, and I hope
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that they have learnt their lesson. The Government are now thrashing around trying to find another use for the building. I suggest that if there are to be any policy changes, one of them should be directed towards county hall and the need to restore a strategic authority for London.The Minister should make it clear that the Government will do nothing with that empty county hall until we have had an election and the people of London, and of the country, have had an opportunity to say whether they want to proceed with Toryism--Thatcherism with a new face and a big pair of glasses--or whether they want socialism. When the Labour Government are elected, we shall reintroduce a new strategic authority for London. It will be called the London council, and it will be responsible for transport, for planning, for the emergency services and for sewage and waste disposal, because we can achieve the efficiencies and economies of scale by planning those services regionally. That is the sensible way to plan for our capital city--the only capital city which does not have city-wide local government. It is done everywhere else, and it ought to be done here. In their hearts, Conservative Members know that we need a strategic authority for London. If, under the new premiership, they have not the courage to throw in the face of the right hon. Member for Finchley the absurdity of her views and her attacks on the GLC, the next Labour Government most certainly will. That is what Londoners want--and when they have a Labour Government, that is exactly what they will get.
12.20 pm
Mr. Gerald Bowden (Dulwich) : I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Neubert) on his good fortune in the ballot and compliment him on his choice of subject.
During the debate, and particularly during the flights of fantasy of the hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks), I pondered our dependence on the word "environment". As Conservative Members must say now, I have modest origins, but it was not an unlettered household. I never heard the word "environment" used during my childhood. It was about 1965, when I was at university, before I heard it used. I wondered how we dealt with the concept that it embraces without the benefit of the word in currency. I suspect that we used the word "community" or "society", which had an elitist ring about it, and that we felt that there was some local connection which "environment", in its broader sense, now embraces.
I became conscious of the importance of "community"--the local connection-- shortly after becoming an hon. Member and following the welcome abolition of the GLC and the devolving of its powers and responsibilities to the boroughs. Some boroughs dealt with them well, and some less than satisfactorily.
One task that the GLC did well was leisure and recreation, particularly the management of the parks under its control. Dulwich park was one of the GLC's particular prides. When it was handed over to Southwark, one of the first decisions that Southwark took was to close the park on Christmas day. I then became aware of the strength of public feeling on such issues. I cannot recall an event or decision that increased my postbag to the extent that that small decision did. Many local residents, and indeed those from further afield, placed reliance on the
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opportunity to walk in the park on Christmas day, as my family and I had many times. It gave the opportunity for kids to try out their new tricycles, hoops or toys and for parents to get them out of the house on Christmas day.That decision was made by Southwark council, and I am glad to say that it will not make it again. Much of my Christmas day that year was spent at the locked gates of Dulwich park explaining why it was happening to those who were unaware of the change. For that reason, I became conscious that local recreational needs must be represented by the local authority which controls them.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) : I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, especially as I have only just arrived. London Transport delayed me--but not for three hours. He is making the same point as my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) made--that poor, hard- pressed inner city areas need a regional strategy to provide recreational facilities. On that basis, I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would support the reintroduction of a strategic authority to provide resources for poorer areas.
Mr. Bowden : The hon. Gentleman is rather jumping the gun. I am coming round to the opposite point of view, but he has given me the opportunity to make it more tersely. Local authorities can be efficient or inefficient. Battersea park was a GLC park, but it is much better run by Wandsworth council than it ever was by the GLC.
Mr. Bowden : You go and look at it, my old friend. I beg your pardon, Mr. Deputy Speaker. A comparison between the way in which Battersea park is run and the way in which Dulwich park is managed by Southwark clearly shows where responsibility is well recognised and delivered and where it is ill-recognised and badly delivered. It is not only local authorities, the boroughs, that are failing to recognise and meet the needs of the local community and protect the local environment, but the other agencies which may be less accountable than many of the London boroughs. If I were not participating in this debate, I would be at Sydenham hill woods, where woodland is being managed by the London Wildlife Trust with a view to providing recreational facilities for those who wish to enjoy the wilderness aspect of woodland that has been there since the ice age. It is partly the responsibility of Southwark, and partly of the estates governors of Alleyn's College of God's Gift, who are more readily recognised as the estates governors of Dulwich college. Like Southwark, they have an interest in land that adjoins that ancient woodland. An enduring campaign in which I have been involved has tried to resist plans to develop land bordering on that ancient woodland. Southwark sought to develop council housing there, which perhaps was a commendable ideal. I could not but feel that, with such a narrow majority as I have, there might have been a political motive in developing a council estate there, in the often mistaken belief that council tenants automatically vote Labour.
Currently before the planning authorities is a scheme proposed by the estate governors of Dulwich college to develop the site adjoining the ancient woodland. The scheme, quite rightly, has met tremendous opposition from the local community, the local councillors and me. My opposition is especially appropriate as I have the
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opportunity to draw to the House's attention that affront to the local environment. If one develops that adjoining land the topography will be changed. The water courses and rainfall tables will be altered so that the balance of nature is disturbed. That issue is part of the local environment, an environment about which we must be vigilant to ensure that it conserved.The planned Channel tunnel rail link also has wider implications for the local environment. If we are part of Europe and have a fixed link with it via the tunnel, it is logical and sensible to develop a rail link from that tunnel to serve all of the United Kingdom. It is important that we do not merely have a prestige fast route to London to a prestige London terminal at King's Cross. It is a desirable ideal to have a fast, fixed link to serve the United Kingdom, able to convey freight and passengers. That link would also have environmental benefits as freight which is currently carried by lorries on the road and crosses the Channel by ferry causes damage. It is also sensible for those who get on a train at Edinburgh or Glasgow to be able to travel straight to Paris or Brussels without changing at King's Cross. Those who want to travel to the continent from the west country, Cardiff or Swansea should be able to travel direct without having to change at Paddington for King's Cross--crossing London by whatever means they can find.
We have had some limited success in opposing the half-baked, cack-handed plans of British Rail for its original link to terminate at King's Cross. However, reconsideration of those plans has brought attendant damage to the area that was to be originally
affected--Warwick gardens in my constituency. When the plans were first proposed they caused great turmoil and anger. Those original plans have now been shelved and will be reconsidered, but, as a result, a blight of searing depth has settled on the community. It is difficult to see how those dispirited feelings can be revived without providing a positive alternative to the original plans.
Mr. Arbuthnot : To what extent is that blight the result of the old compensation law which means that people whose houses are compulsorily purchased receive only the market value for them--a pretty poor market value? The proposed Planning and Compensation Bill will, I hope, offer a 25 per cent. increase over and above the market value of houses to be so purchased. Does my hon. Friend agree that that should deal with the problem to some extent?
Mr. Bowden : The key phrase in my hon. Friend's intervention is "to some extent". I know that the Planning and Compensation Bill had its Second Reading in another place earlier this week. I applaud its provisions because I have always believed that we have been foolishly small-minded about the compensation rules that apply.
If one's land or home is compulsorily acquired one is not only involved in the anguish and agony of having to move, but in a tussle with professionals arguing about what the market value of one's property might be. That has engendered resentment and delay. It would be much better if, as suggested, there was a 25 per cent. premium on the market value. People would then feel that they were receiving a windfall and would greet such a purchase with enthusiasm. I also suspect that the whole process would be
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cheaper in the long run because the expensive lawyers, the planning silks, and valuers would no longer argue the case while charging great fees. The only people who make a profit out of such activities are those professionals, but their services would no longer be required to such an extent. The process would be speedier, there would be more satisfied customers and the interests of the public at large would be better served.However, although new legislation will help some of my constituents in the Warwick gardens area, it will have no effect on the planning blight. The areas in which there is no requirement for British Rail to acquire the homes or the land are most affected by the blight. The homes, quality of life and way of life of those who live there have been damaged by the proximity of the operations.
Under its statutory requirement, British Rail has purchased properties that people wish to sell. Those properties fall within a corridor in which the route and the operations work may go. However, the people who live around that area have no right to have their properties acquired. Whether it acquires adjoining properties is at the discretion of British Rail and it can acquire properties in cases of hardship, if it wishes.
I am dealing with about 12 cases of hardship at present. I am negotiating with British Rail and I hope that we shall come to a satisfactory solution. These cases involve people who have agreed to sell because they are moving away, perhaps because they have a new job. I have two cases in which couples have decided to part on amicable terms and a divorce is pending or has taken place. The couples have decided to sell one property and each partner will buy another property elsewhere, but the sales have been thwarted by the blight on the area. There is a tragi-comic situation of a divorced couple who are obliged to live together in the same house. That could be the substance of a Whitehall farce, but for those involved, it is a tragedy. Such issues arise as a result of an authority--in this case British Rail--not looking at matters with a great interest in the community and in the human environment, but applying the dead letter of the law to a problem that should be dealt with in a human, sympathetic way.
It is especially sad that Warwick gardens has been affected by planning blight. It was first developed about 150 to 180 years ago and it contains a number of fine Georgian and Regency properties. The area went into decline and then became an area of London in which young people with little money, but with a lot of energy, could make their first family homes. They worked with loving care on their own homes and co-operated with their neighbours. Over the past 15 years, Warwick gardens has grown as a community of great maturity. There are young and old residents, there are original residents and those who have moved in from outside. Those involved in the early stages of the professions gave their talents, time and energy to creating and promoting a local community.
At a stroke, with the threat of the Channel tunnel rail link sub-surface junction at Warwick gardens, the neighbourhood has declined. Properties purchased by British Rail have been left vacant and are now occupied by squatters. Properties that had been lovingly maintained are now becoming derelict. If we are not careful, the area may sink back into its old dereliction within 15 years.
Local authorities, statutory authorities such as British Rail and bodies such as the estates governors of Dulwich
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college must play their part and bear their responsibilities in ensuring that their work is for the benefit of the local community. It is particularly apposite that, in one of his first speeches, our new Prime Minister referred to"a country that is at ease with itself".
Perhaps I may borrow that phrase and adapt it slightly. We want communities that are at ease with themselves. In introducing the debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Romford has set the tone and made a keynote speech for the years ahead, in which, under our new Prime Minister, we shall try to ensure that our local environment is such that communities can live at ease with themselves.
12.39 pm
Mr. Martyn Jones (Clwyd, South-West) : I thank the hon. Member for Romford (Mr. Neubert) for choosing this subject for debate. I was unlucky enough to come second in the ballot for private Members' motions, which is the worst position in which to be because one is obliged to sit here all morning listening to hon. Members talking about the first motion on the Order Paper in the knowledge that one's own motion will never be reached. Thanks to the fact that the hon. Member for Romford has kept the wording of the motion so wide, however, I shall perhaps be forgiven for concentrating on the local environment of the people of rural Wales.
The hon. Member for Romford contrasted the free market system engendered by the Tory Government with what he described as the socialist country of Russia and the starvation that it faces. I dispute his description. The USSR may describe itself as socialist but it is in fact an example of state capitalism. Self-praise is no recommendation, as has been illustrated by the Government's description of themselves as caring. I would also remind the hon. Gentleman that two thirds of the world's population are starving, predominantly under the capitalist system.
The motion is important none the less and, as the hon. Gentleman acknowledged at the outset, it is not essentially a party-political motion. But hon. Members should recognise that we have been discussing state intervention or intervention by society as a whole in the actions of some of its members, whether it be in planning, in the disposal of waste and litter or in the removal of graffiti, and that that approach conflicts markedly with the Government's stance. The hon. Gentleman concentrated on urban areas. I venture to suggest that there are much greater threats to the quality of life than litter and graffiti. They include acid rain, global warming, the depletion of the ozone layer, the generation of huge amounts of waste that are simply dumped in the sea or in holes in the ground, heavy metals and nuclear waste. All those factors affect people's immediate local environment--in the long term, in a potentially lethal way. In some places, they have already proved lethal. We have witnessed the dumping of PCBs in the Love canal in the United States, on top of which houses were then built, for heaven's sake. Admittedly, that is an extreme example, but such things will happen more often unless we take action against those who pollute our environment. Other well-known examples are the accident at Bhopal and the toxic algal blooms in the North sea.
As we are unlikely to reach my motion--
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Dr. Dafydd Elis Thomas (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy) : Shame.
Mr. Jones : It is a shame because, although we have had two short debates on rural Wales recently, we have yet to address the essential problems of farming in Wales.
Dr. Thomas : May I, too, record my regret that we have not reached the hon. Gentleman's excellent motion, which I would have supportedly strongly. I am sure that, while staying within the rules of order, the hon. Gentleman will be able to say something about the agricultural environment in Wales.
Mr. Jones : I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I certainly hope to make one or two points about that without straying too far from the motion.
I call attention to the problems of rural Wales and to its quality of life, which were hardly touched on by the hon. Member for Romford. That is not surprising, because he represents an urban area and he is probably unaware of the problems of the rural environment. However, I believe that they are equally important, not only for the people who live in rural areas in England and Wales, but for people who live in cities and wish to enjoy that rural environment.
There will be a catastrophic impact on the local environment of Welsh people if farming in Wales is allowed to decline. Farming throughout Britain is under pressure from two directions. First, intensification and modernisation threaten the industry's sustainability. They also harm the natural environment, the social structure in rural areas and public health. Secondly, current methods of farm support--and even this free market Government seem to turn a blind eye to state intervention in agriculture-- are discredited by farmers, consumers and taxpayers.
Farmers can continue to maintain the countryside in Wales, an environment which most people want to continue as it is, only if there is support for farmers, not for prices. Price support does not help the consumers of produce or of the environment in rural areas. Farmers cannot continue to protect the visual and amenity value of the rural environment if prices continue to decline. At last month's draft ewe sale at Machynlleth prices were abysmally low. The average ewe was fetching £15, whereas it fetched £27 last year and £35 the year before. If prices decline and price support is also forced down by the need to reach agreement in the GATT Uruguay round, farming has little future in the hills of Wales.
The price decline of produce, coupled with higher prices for machinery and inputs, huge interest rate rises, the poll tax, reduced services in rural areas--and bus services have been decimated in rural areas since deregulation--have all had an effect. Water connection prices have quintupled since the privatisation of water and telephone connection charges have increased. Post offices are closing and small shops are becoming non-viable. The rural environment in Wales and elsewhere is under serious threat.
If farmers are driven off the land, which, as I have said, is already happening, whole parishes will become wastelands. Faced with that depressing scenario, the Government must consider whether the time is right for an alternative policy for agriculture.
I realise that that is extremely difficult for a monetarist free-market Government, forced into state intervention by the common agricultural policy of the European
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Community and by the votes of farmers in rural areas--at least, by the votes that they used to receive from farmers in rural areas--but the Government cannot ignore the problem because it will not go away no matter how much the Government would like it to do so. People want to enjoy the rural environment. They do not want it to revert to a derelict industrial site. However, what can the Government do? The Labour party believes that there is only one alternative which may be very distasteful to free marketeers. There should be output control, or supply management, which can take various forms, some of which will be more appropriate to certain commodities than to others. Those forms include extensification--or taking a proportion of output out of production--and set aside, which has already been tried in a small way, which involves taking a proportion of land out of production. The latter could have some environmental disadvantages because it alters the visual environment of the countryside detrimentally. The forms of control also include quotas, which are especially effective for commodities when there are only a few purchasers, and nitrogen quotas, which would restrict nitrogen applications. That would reduce yields and pollution, both of which would be beneficial.Other policies could be pursued to great effect. For example, green premia would encourage low input systems and the positive management of countryside features by farmers. I suppose, in effect, that that is an extension of the environmentally sensitive areas. It would be much more used and much more effective.
Farming is an essential element in the maintenance and creation of environmental value. Integrated policies with agricultural and environmental objectives can encourage farming practices that lead to diverse and high-quality landscapes and maintain ecological systems. Such practices would pay more heed to traditional husbandry methods and less to production intensity. At present, farmers' only alternative to the economic mess that they are in is to increase production or to go out of business, both of which would have a devastating effect on the local environment. A less
production-oriented view of agriculture could also recognise the role of small and part-time farmers in rural areas and rural affairs. The current focus on the agricultural aspects of farming means a policy bias towards the larger farm, despite the clear part that smaller units can play in the maintenance of environmental quality, especially in Wales.
There is a danger that if the role of farming is not shifted in that way towards environmental and agricultural requirements, the decline in the environmental quality of rural areas will accelerate. The need for enhanced agricultural production is declining, and, if agricultural policy remains the guiding principle behind support for rural areas, the justification for public support of rural areas will also decline.
The central importance of the European dimension in rural policy making is inescapable. Farming in each member state will be driven in directions that are determined at EC level, and it is primarily to that level that environmental interests must address themselves. The incorporation of environmental considerations involves a more regional approach to agricultural policy than has
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hitherto been the case. That should bring economic and political advantages to communities that are by-passed by the mainstream of development.It is necessary to ensure that EC legislation is framed in ways that are sufficiently sensitive to be amenable to local implementation, and to monitor that implementation in its adherence to the spirit of EC intentions. I hope that national or regional specialisation of agricultural policy will become easier when the single market is a reality and the credibility of the EC rests less on the continuing operation of the common agricultural policy as the only truly common policy.
Individual countries attempting to set high environmental standards may face the suspicion that they are attempting to restrict free trade and may even encounter threats of legal action. As the single market concept approaches reality, it is vital that the European Commission should continue to take the lead in environmental matters if the concept of European integration is not to be brought into disrepute and clashes with national policies are to be prevented. Common environmental policies must be seen not as an impediment to European integration but as an essential part of it.
An environmental approach stresses the holistic nature of environmental benefits, a characteristic that reflects the wide variety of elements that form the environment and the fact that much environmental activity is essentially co-operative, requiring the co-ordination of individual farmers' decisions. It implies a programme for the whole countryside rather than for discrete areas in particular need of protection. Although there is a clear case for specific local measures to protect limited sites or features of particular environmental sensitivity, such a piecemeal approach on its own is not enough to produce the changed role of farming which is increasingly necessary on environmental and financial grounds. The boundaries between protected and non-protected areas can only be arbitrary, and are increasingly irrelevant in the face of pollution and our growing appreciation of ecological interdependence. The best results will arise from the promotion of major changes in farming systems and in farming philosophies.
A shift from product price support to environmental management payments is capable of simultaneously reducing agricultural output, maintaining farm incomes and farm populations, reducing the total cost of support to society, and providing unequivocal environmental benefits such as reduced pollution, improved wildlife habitats and landscapes, and improved food quality. That is Labour party policy, and it is the only way forward for the preservation and future of farming in Wales and elsewhere for consumers, taxpayers and all those who wish to enjoy the rural environment.
12.54 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment (Mr. David Heathcoat-Amory) : I hope that the hon. Member for ClwydSouth- West (Mr. Jones) will forgive me if I do not mention all the points he made. Although they are important for his constituents and more widely, they fall outside the scope of my ministerial responsibilities. However, I shall ensure that the relevant Government members see his remarks and, where appropriate, respond.
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I join in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Neubert), who selected well in choosing this subject for debate. He introduced it with a fund of background knowledge about the environment, drawn from acute observations of the issues and his sustained interest in the subject over many years. His speech and those of other Members have touched on all the environmental issues with which our constituents are concerned. That does not deny the importance of the global issues, which are of increasing concern to the Government.The hon. Member for Newham, North-West (Mr. Banks) rightly said that when people are initially asked about environmental issues that worry them, they tend to list neighbourhood concerns and local issues before turning to the global problems of ozone depletion and global warming which, although important, attract their immediate attention less often.
I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr. Patten) for his skill and leadership of the Department of the Environment during the past year, particularly in the context of global issues. It was very much this skill and leadership that enabled this country to participate constructively in a number of international environment conferences and to bring some of them, including that on ozone depletion, to a successful conclusion. The hon. Member for Southwark and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) suggested that the appointment of my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) to the Department of the Environment was a sign of a lessening in the Government's commitment to environmental protection. I assure him that that is not so. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will carry forward, undiminished, our policies to protect and enhance the built and natural environment. My hon. Friend the Member for South Hams (Mr. Steen) spoke about planning issues and the hon. Member for Newham, North-West mentioned a number of housing matters. If I cannot answer them all in this debate, I shall ensure that others read the remarks of those hon. Members. I think that everyone who has examined the issues would agree that although the Government have a leadership role, the duty of the concerned and responsible individual is also important. A range of issues--from litter to energy efficiency, dog control, and recycling-- are best tackled by a partnership between central Government, local government, individuals, voluntary groups and businesses. To achieve that, we need a knowledgeable and well-informed public. Throughout our White Paper and the Environmental Protection Act 1990, we stress the importance of public access to information. The active citizen needs relevant information, a certain amount of which is already available from voluntary groups such as WasteWatch, which produce a good national directory of recycling facilities.
The new Environmental Protection Act marks a milestone in that it sets in place the systematic provision of information. It establishes a framework for public information on diverse subjects such as litter control areas, areas of land that may be contaminated, processes that are subject to integrated pollution control and, perhaps most notably, a range of public registers that will contain raw monitoring data as well as licensing information, to which the public will have access free of charge. Our best defence
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