Prepared: 14:26 on 2 July 2009
Mr. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): These are difficult times and some farmers with land in my constituency have not received their single farm payment from four years ago because of the difficulty of ensuring that cross-border applications are properly instituted. Will the Secretary of State please respond to me if I supply details to him, so that we can obtain some relief for those farmers?
Hilary Benn: I shall very happily do that.
9. Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What proportion of the costs of dealing with exotic animal disease outbreaks will be met by farmers under his Department’s cost-sharing proposals. [283384]
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): Proposals on how responsibilities and costs for animal health could be shared with livestock keepers in future have been the subject of a three-month consultation. Final decisions will be taken in the light of responses to the consultation.
Mr. Hollobone: DEFRA assumes that in a typical year, whatever that is, the costs of coping with such outbreaks might be £134 million, of which £65 million would fall on the Government and £69 million on the industry. The Secretary of State now proposes that the industry shares half the Government’s costs, effectively meaning that farmers will pay 70 per cent. of the overall bill. Are not DEFRA’s estimates of the overall cost of preventing such outbreaks too high, and is not the proposed burden-sharing unfair?
Hilary Benn: The figures that we published in the consultation paper were illustrative, but the fundamental principle is about whether it is right to share responsibility for taking decisions about animal disease. My view, and that of the industry, is that it is. Indeed, the industry has long argued for it. Is it then unreasonable in the circumstances to share some costs of handling disease outbreaks, as we have done with blue tongue? It is not. Indeed, it was a recommendation of Iain Anderson after the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak. It is important that we get on with the process. Indeed, Germany has had a disease levy for several years.
10. Mr. Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Whitby) (Con): What his most recent assessment is of the future prospects of the dairy industry; and if he will make a statement. [283385]
The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): The long-term prospects for the dairy sector are encouraging, and the UK is well placed to take advantage of the expected growth in global demand. The British dairy sector as a whole is fundamentally sound, and, through the dairy supply chain forum, we are providing a framework for constructive debate and information for the industry to make informed decisions about its future.
Mr. Goodwill: Is the Minister aware of the particular vulnerability of small dairy farms in remote locations, such as the North York Moors national park, as the big dairies cherry-pick the accessible farms with the big herds? What does he think would be a fair price for milk to secure the future of such businesses for generations to come?
Jim Fitzpatrick: Setting the milk price is a commercial matter to be resolved through private negotiations that should take place within the parameters set down by competition law. The market must determine prices. I fully recognise, however, the different challenges that remote farms face and which the hon. Gentleman raises. They can be exacerbated by the fact that such farms tend to be smaller, as he describes, and unable to provide the quality of milk to make collection commercially viable. In the case of Dairy Farmers of Britain farmers, we have ensured that the parties involved have got together to make haulage costs more viable. That is one way in which remote farms could look after their business interests more collectively.
Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con): Please will the Minister listen to small dairy farmers, in particular, who will tell him that the dairy industry is far from secure in the long run? Indeed, what thinking is his Department undertaking to determine the future strategically—in terms of Britain’s food supply and, in particular, its raw milk supply? The prospects are so bleak that farmers are convinced that there will be no milk production in this country within 10 or 12 years unless we do something about the matter.
Jim Fitzpatrick: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, and his less than optimistic description of the industry. I chaired the dairy supply chain forum 10 days ago at the Department, and the impression that I got from industry members, including farmers, National Farmers Union members, dairy supply chain representatives and retailers, was one of optimism and positivity, notwithstanding a reduction in production from 14 billion to 13 billion litres and a reduction in the number of dairy farmers over the past 12 months. The overall position for the industry, however, looked very encouraging.
11. Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Devonport) (Lab): What estimate his Department has made of the volume of wastage of edible food arising from date stamping and food labelling practices; and if he will make a statement. [283386]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Norris): The Waste and Resources Action Programme has estimated that 370,000 tonnes of food that is past its “best before” date but still probably safe to eat is thrown away by householders each year. The “best before” date is an indicator of quality rather than of food safety. I have no comparable statistics for the commercial sector.
Alison Seabeck: I welcome my hon. Friend to the Dispatch Box and thank him for that reply. A number of my constituents have contacted me expressing real concern about the extraordinarily high level of edible waste that disappears into dustbins. They feel that we should be able to attack the problem in a number of ways. First, individuals should ensure that they do not waste as much food; secondly, supermarkets should cut back on their three-for-two offers, which encourage over-buying; and thirdly, the food industry should buy into the labelling. What additional help will the Government offer, and when does my hon. Friend expect the Food Standards Agency review on labelling to report?
Dan Norris: I thank my hon. Friend for her comments. The key thing is that energy from waste is only one part of the picture; the Government’s priority is to consider waste prevention, reuse and recycling ahead of energy from waste. I do not have the specific answer to my hon. Friend’s question, but I will write to her with it.
12. Mr. David Jones (Clwyd, West) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with farming organisations on the taking into receivership of Dairy Farmers of Britain; and if he will make a statement. [283387]
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): As I said in answer to an earlier question, my ministerial colleagues and I have been working with a wide range of organisations to continue our efforts to help those affected.
Mr. Jones: In answer to a question from the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle), the Secretary of State said that he saw no need for an inquiry into the failure of Dairy Farmers of Britain. However, last August the co-operative issued an annual report that by any standards contained a preposterously over-optimistic assessment of its future. Given that so many farmers have lost so much money already and stand to lose even more, will the Secretary of State confirm that when he or his ministerial colleagues are considering the failure of the co-operative, they will take into account the actions of the directors who authorised that annual report?
Hilary Benn: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concern on behalf of the farmer members. For some while, it has been no secret that Dairy Farmers of Britain was in difficulty; the House is well aware of that. Ultimately, of course, the directors are responsible to the members of the company. For reasons that the House will understand, we have been concentrating our efforts on trying to help those affected. The single most important step that we can take is to try to find alternative buyers for their milk.
13. Mrs. Linda Riordan (Halifax) (Lab/Co-op): If he will seek discussions with his US counterpart on UK-US co-operation on marine conservation worldwide. [283388]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State met Dr. Jane Lubchenco, head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in the US, when he visited the United States in May 2009. They discussed the UK marine strategy and the impacts of climate change on marine ecosystems.
Mrs. Riordan: I welcome the Government’s close dialogue with the new US Administration on all things marine. However, does the Minister agree that, given the Marine and Coastal Access Bill, common fisheries policy reform and so on, we are increasingly becoming a leading reformer on marine fisheries issues globally?
Huw Irranca-Davies: It is an important agenda, and it is rising both in the public mood and among politicians. We need to consider how we bring marine and fisheries issues together within CFP reform, take a long-term view, base decisions on the science and better equip regional management. Furthermore, we are considering the Marine and Coastal Access Bill at the moment in Committee. The agenda is rising, and the Government are committed to playing a leading role in it, domestically and globally.
Bill Wiggin (Leominster) (Con): I am pleased to hear that the Minister takes the issue seriously; anyone who has read Charles Clover’s excellent book “The End of the Line”, or seen the film, will know that we have to hurry to make sure that we preserve our marine species. Monaco represents the Government’s next opportunity to fight to make sure that the bluefin tuna gets a convention on international trade in endangered species listing, and that the EU does not put together some cosy deal cooked up by southern states, thus splitting our strong and important sense that the species should be preserved.
Huw Irranca-Davies: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. I have seen Charles Clover’s film and I have read his book—in fact, I met him the day before yesterday. [Interruption.] I have the T-shirt. We are as committed as any European nation to dealing with the bluefin tuna issue. We are awaiting with interest a possible proposal from Monaco and the US, and we will respond accordingly at the appropriate time. Like many other European nations, we are concerned about bluefin tuna.
14. Simon Hughes (North Southwark and Bermondsey) (LD): What recent discussions he has had with local authorities on waste recycling targets; and if he will make a statement. [283389]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Norris): Local authorities have made great progress in increasing the rate of recycling. I am encouraged that 85 per cent. of them have chosen to include a waste target in their current local area agreements to ensure they continue to prioritise this important area. I have not had any recent discussions with local authorities about waste recycling targets. My officials regularly meet representatives of local authorities to discuss all aspects of waste management, including recycling targets.
Simon Hughes: Household recycling has certainly improved considerably, but will Ministers talk to local councils about the recycling of material in public places, particularly at transport sites—railway stations, tube stations and bus stations—where, for example, lots of newspapers, especially free newspapers, are all over the place on a regular basis? That is an issue that should be of concern both nationally and locally.
Dan Norris: I certainly agree about free newspapers, which pose a particular challenge that we take seriously. I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman feels that the Government have been doing positive things in this respect, but I completely accept that we need to do even more. Recycling on the go is something that we need to be thinking hard about in the years to come.
15. Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): What recent representations he has received from the small business sector on arrangements for the disposal of commercial waste. [283390]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Norris): Officials from my Department have been in discussion with the small business sector and a wide range of other interested parties about the management of commercial and industrial waste. Later this month I hope to publish a statement of our policy objectives for these types of waste, which will include a list of actions to help achieve those objectives.
Mr. Chaytor: The local waste disposal site for commercial use in my constituency has been closed for refurbishment for nearly a year, which means that small businesses have to travel to larger sites in neighbouring towns where the charging regime is much more rigid. A sole trader who could previously have disposed of a small load for £5 now has to pay a minimum charge of £58 per half tonne. In the statement that the Minister is going to make later this month, will he consider the impact of rigid charging schemes, particularly the consequential increases in fly-tipping?
Dan Norris: I completely accept that there are difficulties in this regard, and we need to think carefully about them. However, there are some good examples of local authorities raising their own initiatives to deal with circumstances that are not exactly the same as those that my hon. Friend’s constituents face, but are not dissimilar. I am certainly happy for his local authority people to liaise with my officers and officials in order to work out a solution to the challenge that he has brought up.
T1. [283401] Mr. Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Hilary Benn): DEFRA’s responsibility is to help us all to live within our environmental means. I wish to inform the House of the appointment of Christopher Parry as chair-designate of the Marine Management Organisation, which is to be established under the Marine and Coastal Access Bill. His appointment will be for three years from the point at which the MMO is created.
Mr. Crabb: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that reply. I was pleased to see the recent DEFRA consultation on amending the Animals Act 1971 to remove the threat of strict liability faced by responsible animal owners. That is one of the factors contributing to the crippling insurance costs now facing riding schools, disabled riding centres and livery yards. When will the Minister be in a position to give an update on the outcome of that consultation? Some of us have tried to fix this several times through private Members’ Bills and ten-minute rule procedures, and it really needs the Government to sort it out once and for all.
Hilary Benn: I share the view that the hon. Gentleman expresses. He rightly draws attention to the efforts that have been made in this House, unfortunately without success, to deal with this issue. We will publish responses to the consultation as soon as we can, because I recognise the concern that there is out there about the position that people find themselves in.
Linda Gilroy (Plymouth, Sutton) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome the Walker review on water metering and charging, which sets out for the first time the basis on which we can properly consider who should pay for the costs of environmental benefits such as the costly beach clean-up in the south-west. Will my right hon. Friend meet a group of colleagues from the south-west to discuss why this should be used to put right the very high prices that we have as a result of the botched Tory water privatisation?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Huw Irranca-Davies): I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and other hon. Members here today who have repeatedly led delegations to me to raise these issues. It is good to see that Anna Walker has been comprehensive in her response to those issues. The road tour in the south-west was particularly well attended by hon. Members, including my hon. Friend, and I am sure that they will attend the next one. She is right that we have to address this issue, and I look forward to meeting her soon. I am sure that she will keep up the pressure on me, and on No. 10.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr. Speaker: Order. I am keen to get through as many questions as possible, and I remind right hon. and hon. Members that topical questions in particular need to be very brief.
T2. [283402] Mr. Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Does the Secretary of State agree that at a time of national crisis, the European Union contribution should relate to reform of the common agricultural policy? Should we not take a lesson from the Prime Minister and increase our contribution to the EU by 0 per cent., and save £3.5 billion?
The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Jim Fitzpatrick): I think we covered the arrangements for the CAP and its reform earlier. We will do everything that we can to protect British interests and ensure that it is as efficient as possible.
T4. [283406] Mr. Jim Cunningham (Coventry, South) (Lab): When was the last time that the Minister met the water regulator to discuss the high charges that people are having inflicted on them at the moment, given the state of the economy?
Huw Irranca-Davies: Both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I regularly meet the economic regulator. In fact, we have met within the past few weeks. As my hon. Friend knows, the pricing review is going on. We have to ensure that the water companies deliver for the consumer and deliver environmental benefit, within our social and environmental guidance. We will continue to advocate that.
T3. [283404] Mr. Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): A decade ago, there were several dozen dairy farmers in the borough of Kettering. Now, the local branch of the National Farmers Union tells me that there are just two left. The new slurry storage regulations may well be the last straw. When will the Department introduce measures that reduce the cost of dairy farming in this country?
Hilary Benn: The legislation on nitrate-vulnerable zones dates from the early 1990s, and those who took positions at the time bear responsibility for the consequences. We have to apply the legislation as it is in place. As I indicated earlier, there is a specified period for farmers to take on the requirements for additional slurry storage, and as the House will be aware, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has clarified there is access to a capital allowance for the construction of slurry stores.
T6. [283408] Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North) (Lab): May we have a brief update on food labelling? I am increasingly receiving expressions of concern from my constituents about the dubious labelling of eggs and chicken. The packaging is designed to create the impression that the products are organic, free-range and produced in the UK, whereas the small print makes it clear that they are intensively farmed and imported from abroad.
Jim Fitzpatrick: My hon. Friend raises a very important point, and I can assure him that DEFRA is working hard on the matter. Labelling and country of origin are being examined, and we will come forward with proposals in due course.
T5. [283407] Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): On Monday the Prime Minister launched the White Paper “Building Britain’s Future”. There is no reference in that document to farming, the rural economy or recycling. With the exception of a reference to the Flood and Water Management Bill, DEFRA is completely invisible in it. Why does DEFRA not seem to appear at all in “Building Britain’s Future”?
Hilary Benn: The hon. Gentleman points to the Flood and Water Management Bill, which is a really good example of our getting on with it in light of the terrible floods that affected people in 2007. I simply say that the answers that the House has heard so far today clearly indicate a Department getting on with it and helping the farming industry to ensure that we can produce enough food.
Natascha Engel (North-East Derbyshire) (Lab): May I press my hon. Friend the Minister of State on his earlier answer about country of origin labelling? Meat that comes from abroad is being sold under pictures of Union Jacks, which is tricking people into thinking that they are buying British when they are not. What specifically is being done to enforce honest country of origin labelling?
Jim Fitzpatrick: My hon. Friend makes an absolutely valid point. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has already pronounced that this is a nonsense situation. The matter was raised at the Agriculture Council last week in Luxembourg, and we are working as quickly as we can on it because we want exactly the same thing as she does.
T7. [283410] Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): The Government rightly promote recycling, but is the Minister aware that Lewes district council’s recycling levels have effectively been capped at 27 per cent. by East Sussex county council, which will not provide further recycling credits because it wants a waste stream to feed its incinerator? Is it not about time that East Sussex county council was pulled out of the stone age and that councils that want to recycle more, such as Lewes council, which believes it can increase recycling by 50 per cent., were allowed to get on with it?
Hilary Benn: If the hon. Gentleman would care to write to me with the details of the point that he has just raised, I will happily look at them.
Jane Kennedy (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): May I urge my right hon. Friend to hold to his intention of responding to the consultation on the so-called replacement insecticide with a voluntary scheme that will be workable and achievable and which will demonstrate our willingness to trust the farming community, which shares our concerns about the impact of agriculture on the environment?
Hilary Benn: I will announce my decision very shortly, but as I indicated to the National Farmers Union conference this year—and as my right hon. Friend will be well aware—in the end, I do not have a fixed view about the means of achieving the goal that we all share, which was set out well by those on the Opposition Front Bench earlier. In the end, we want an effective scheme that will work, and generally speaking, if we can encourage people to take part, we will get better results.
Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire) (Con): From his meeting with the farmers of South Staffordshire earlier this year, the Secretary of State will remember the acute concern expressed about bovine TB. Has he rethought his policy on a badger cull?
Hilary Benn: No, I have not—I believe in being straight—because the evidence from where badger culling has been tried, as reported by the independent scientific group, was clear. However, we are working with the industry through the TB eradication group. In the end, the considerable amount of money that we are putting into vaccines will, I hope, offer a better way of dealing with the disease. We are looking to start the demonstration projects next year, subject to licensing, in the six areas that are being identified now.
David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire) (Lab/Co-op): Further to the previous question, as an MP for a rural area for 12 years, I regularly contact the NFU in my area to track its concerns. Indeed, I am seeing the NFU as part of that schedule at Oaks-in-Charnwood on Monday morning. High on the agenda will be bovine TB, which is showing worrying signs of spreading towards our area and thereby posing a threat to herds, farm incomes and, potentially, health. I want to take this discussion to my local farmers, so will my right hon. Friend elaborate a little on his answer to the previous question?
Hilary Benn: In the interests of time and in keeping with the spirit of topical questions, I would be happy to write to my hon. Friend with further details. In the end, this is about doing things that will work. No one would thank us if we did things that did not work, although I understand just how difficult it is for the farmers who are affected by bovine TB. The testing programme that we have put in place is, in large part, about trying to stem the spread to other areas of the country.
Mr. Michael Jack (Fylde) (Con): Further to the question that my hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) asked about DEFRA’s budget, could the Secretary of State tell us what informed his statement that his Department’s budget would be reduced from 2011 and say when he will publish details of what that means for DEFRA and the people whom it serves?
Hilary Benn: I did not say what the right hon. Gentleman has just indicated. What I was referring to last week was the published figures—they have been out for some time, although I realise that it has taken other people a little while to see them––which show the change between 2009–10 and 2010–11. As he will be aware, there are no budget figures beyond 2010–11, because that would be the subject of a future comprehensive spending review. What we are doing, as indicated earlier by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Member for Wansdyke (Dan Norris), is spending money efficiently. However, like him, I am a little loth to take advice from a party that would cut budgets across the piece now.
Mr. Brian Jenkins (Tamworth) (Lab): Will my right hon. Friend inform the House when Ministers last met the waste industry with a view to considering proposals to reduce the amount of packaging and waste produced, the amount of waste going to landfill and the amount going into the production of energy? If we reduce the amount going to landfill, we will have more for energy.
Hilary Benn: We meet representatives of the waste industry on a pretty regular basis. Indeed, as my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Member for Wansdyke (Dan Norris) indicated in answer to an earlier question, we have seen progress in recent years in increasing the proportion of packaging being recycled. However, my hon. Friend is correct: the other part of the equation is about trying to reduce the amount of packaging that goes on goods in the first place.
Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): What steps is the Secretary of State taking to stop or at least mitigate the worst effects of the introduction of electronic sheep tagging, which will have a disastrous effect on the farmers and crofters in my constituency? NFU Scotland is seeking a face-to-face meeting with Commissioner Vassiliou. Will the Secretary of State use his office to get NFU Scotland that meeting, so that it can put its concerns straight at the heart of matter?
Hilary Benn: As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, we have worked very hard to express the concerns of many people in the UK about the cost of electronic identification of sheep. He will also be aware of the changes that we have been able to get to the implementation of the directive under the slaughter derogation, and of the fact that the Standing Committee on Food Chain and Animal Health is looking at the idea of third-party recording, which would lift some of the burden that would otherwise fall on sheep farmers. I recently wrote to all my fellow Agriculture Ministers urging further support, and my hon. Friend the Minister of State raised the issue with the Commissioner at the recent meeting of the Agriculture Council.
Adam Price (Carmarthen, East and Dinefwr) (PC): As nationalisation is the flavour of the month, has the Secretary of State considered taking Dairy Farmers of Britain’s dairies at Bridgend and Blaydon into temporary public ownership?
Hilary Benn: No, we have not. However, as I told the House last week, we indicated to the receiver that we and One NorthEast would be prepared to offer financial support to keep the Blaydon dairy open while an effort was made to find a management buy-out. Unfortunately, it was not possible to achieve that and, for that reason, the dairy closed.